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Reader Comments (287)

Posted: Jan 2nd 2012 5:25PM (Unverified) said

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I never gave Oblivion much of a chance but I must say that I am really enjoying Skyrim. I think I'll go back and try Oblivion again.

Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:02PM OverMuch said

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@(Unverified)

Me too. I only made it through about six hours of Oblivion before getting bored. Skyrim, though, has me HOOKED.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:26PM Chief Oddball said

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@(Unverified)

Me too. I got bored with Oblivion after about 20 hours (my first trip to Oblivion really sealed the deal on that one), but Skyrim has got me by the balls. I'm losing sleep every night from staying up too late, always just trying to do one more quest...
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:52PM Jennacide said

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@(Unverified)
Oblivion sadly isn't nearly as good. It wasn't a bad game, just not a great one like Skyrim. The quests are far less interesting, with only the Dark Brotherhood having a decent quest line, and the internal environments are reused out the yin-yang. (Admittedly, there was ONE guy doing the caves/dungeons then, poor soul)

Morrowind is the better one to go back to and see what has changed. Skyrim does a lot of thing awesome, but there are a handful of changes from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim that suck. (Mainly enchanting nerfs)
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 6:34PM Dubiousity said

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@(Unverified)

Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game and I played it all of 4 hours before I refunded it, I just didn't like it at all.

Skyrim is amazing however. I'm almost as addicted to Skyrim as I was when I first played New Vegas.

(And I'm sure some people will wonder how I could compare the two)
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 7:41PM Shadowbender said

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@(Unverified)

I know of countless people that bellowed a loud "meh" for Oblivion but totally fell for Skyrim. Interesting to see the same situation for so many gamers.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 10:16PM sparkster said

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@(Unverified)
I don't know people. There's alot of fun to be had in Oblivion. The Dark Brotherhood quests where alot more creative than those in Skyrim. Same thing goes for the Thieves Guild. Additionally all the guilds' quest lines seemed longer.
Also I kind of miss the Athletics and Acrobatics skills in Skyrim almost as much as I wanted levitation back when I went from Morrowind to Oblivion.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Skyrim and I almost put 120 hours into it so far, but to me it just feels that every new Elder Scrolls game sacrifices freedom and complexity in favor of atmosphere. Whether that's a good thing or not is up to the individual player though.
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Posted: Jan 5th 2012 12:47AM Jetleo1 said

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@OverMuch You and everyone else. Now then, back to the cycle of "Just one more map marker..."
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Posted: Jan 5th 2012 6:14AM keroro said

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@Jennacide
The thieve guild quests were better in skyrim, and the spell creation was great
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:01PM 8bitartist said

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aaaaaaaannnnndddddddd uncharted 3 and zelda: skyward get the complete shaft.

Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:04PM MisterEFQ said

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I was going to come up with an intelligent response to this but I decided to go with this instead:

Just like your mom.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:05PM ShadowSoldier89 said

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@8bitartist yea, I'm not a big fan of this list at all, zelda and Uncharted 3 are more deserving than Gears of war 3, saints row, shadows of the damned, bastion, and batman
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:11PM Alex Trebek said

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@8bitartist
They did the same thing last year with SMG2. Joystiq hates Nintendo so much it's gross.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:13PM Stevetrop Man of Mystery said

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@8bitartist

To be fair this is their opinion though. This has been an amazing year for gamers where we have reached a new level in gaming. Great games are now a constant thing and it only looks to get better.

We are about to go above & beyond in the great games that will be coming out.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:14PM Revengez said

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@ShadowSoldier89

I'm going to have to assume you didn't play any of those games?
Anyways, it's a Joystig list, not yours. I don't understand why you're getting mad or butthurt because someone didn't like a game as much as you, and you didn't like games as much as them. Just because it's a Triple A exclusive title doesn't mean that it's automatically going to get GotY from Joystiq.

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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:14PM mywhitenoise said

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@8bitartist
Yeah, instead they favored Gears of War and Saints Row? ugh
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:17PM Alex Trebek said

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@Revengez

Shadows of the Damn - Joystiq gave it four stars and it's number 7. SS & U3 got four and a half stars and it's not even in the top ten. Some cohesion would be nice.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:20PM Harry Seaward said

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@8bitartist Skyward Sword......lawl

Uncharted I don't understand though
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:21PM edoglost said

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@8bitartist

Haters Gonna Hate.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:23PM ShadowSoldier89 said

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@Revengez played them all actually, and though things like shadows of the damned and saints row stood out as impressive games that were better than expected, and gears is gears, they still dont compare to Uncharted, just read joystiqs reviews of these games, uncharted scored higher than several games on this list, yet didnt make it, I just cant follow that logic
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:24PM Faceless Troll said

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@Lucky48 Nothing about this list was surprising.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:24PM cantwait2bhome said

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@ShadowSoldier89
Yeah, and here I was thinking the other day, "Cool. A unique indie game like Bastion getting on their list."
Now I'm thinking, "Curse you, Bastion! How dare you take up a spot on a list where my beloved Skyward Sword belongs!"
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:27PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said

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@Revengez I did play all those games and from what he listed only Batman was up to Zelda's and Uncharted's level. The rest like Gears to a lesser degree are forgettable.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:27PM Omega2822 said

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@Alex Trebek hey now - I hate Nintendo too.

But I still dislike this list.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:27PM Korbie said

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@Lucky48

Not that I've seen so far. Very surprised.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:40PM jadee said

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@8bitartist
This top-ten list is very confusing--I can see why Joystiq would pick some of the smaller or different titles for the list to promote creativity and originality in the gaming industry (whether or not they scored above a 4), but they put them too high on the list for most of the general public to really care (they mainly look for the top 3 - 5).
Then the top of the list is left for the big-budget, AAA titles--but a lot of the list has already been occupied by the smaller titles leaving no room for the games which most have felt to be the worthy for the Top Ten.

It's still all about opinion though, and everyone's differs. If you check my history you'd find that I'm obviously a Naughty Dog (namely Uncharted) fanatic.
Of course I think Uncharted should be up there somewhere. But still--while I think Uncharted 3 is a definite improvement to its predecessor, namely narrative, it is more of the same, just better (which is exactly what I wanted).
And while Uncharted 3 may be possibly take my place for my favorite game (ever), I felt that Portal 2, with its lovable characters, story, and gameplay improvements, offered an experience that leaped bounds ahead of the original, no doubt using its momentum carried two portals.
After this incredible of gaming, my GOTY is Portal 2.

Sorry for rambling.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:40PM Migs said

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@ShadowSoldier89 "gears is gears".. but Gears 3 just happens to be the most polished Gears game out there, with a good (not great) single player, a number of competitive and cooperative multiplayer modes, four player co-op and polish all around. It's definitely deserving of a top 10 nomination.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:41PM Bouillestfu said

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@8bitartist It's not just Nintendo last year StarCraft 2 didn't get into the top 10 and yet it's the game people still play and will keep playing for another 10 years. Unlike the "winners" that collect dust when the next big name in gaming comes out.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 4:46PM Mal F4cti0n said

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@ShadowSoldier89

I would have to disagree. Those games got into the top 10 because of thier multiplayer aspect, which is part of the whole package. A game that has no multiplayer experience and/or one that is not well fleshed out and balanced, is basically an incomplete game. There are some exceptions, as seen by Skyrim.

A game that is not new and innovative, does not tell a great story in a great way, does not have great gameplay, has very little depth to its linear gameplay and story arch, or does not makes you want to come back to play again and again (great MP) does not deserve to be in the top 10.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 5:03PM ItsameMatt03 said

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@8bitartist

Complete and utter what the fuuuuuuuck!
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 5:06PM Lerkero said

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@8bitartist

It's a Joystiq list.

They aren't saying other games are automatically bad, just that these are the 10 the Joystiq staff enjoyed the most.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 5:11PM Naru now in 3D said

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@8bitartist

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Uncharted 3 but I think I understand why it's not on this list: Uncharted 2 is just as good, if not better. (I liked Uncharted 2's story better, but I guess that's more subjective.)

Skyrim and the rest of these games are pretty big improvements/changes over their predecessors in a lot of ways, and that's why they stand out the most this year.

...I guess you could say Skyward Sword has some major improvements/changes too (for one, the orchestral soundtrack is AMAZING!)... But I guess they didn't like the motion controls lol? I'm not a huge fan of them myself.


Either that or maybe it's just based on bribery :D
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 5:26PM MJLahey said

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@8bitartist

I am a little surprised that this list didn't have Zelda or Uncharted 3, but I'm am shocked they didn't even make anyone's "Best of the Rest" lists.

Are all the Best of Rest done, or did they save the ones with Zelda and U3 until after the top 10 were revealed so we would be guessing?
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 5:48PM Wizardsofwaverly said

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@8bitartist Pokemon white should be #1 , if I want to play with dragons I'll play dungeons and dragons
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 6:01PM singleandlovinit said

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It was also their opinion that Uncharted 3 and Skyward Sword scored 4.5. There are games on this list that got just a 4.

I dont see how anybody could POSSIBLY argue that Uncharted 3 and Skyward Sword werent better than at least 2 games on this list. I dont think its an "opinion" that Uncharted 3 is a better game than some of these, some things regarding quality are simply fact.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 6:32PM Colin said

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@singleandlovinit

It's not an objective scale. Each writer picks their top ten games or so, and the games that come up the most often make it into the weighted list.

Obviously, a lot more people mentioned Skyrim and Portal in their lists. Seeing as none of the best of the rest posts have had Skyward Sword or Uncharted in them, it's pretty clear they weren't popular among the Joystiq staff no matter the quality.

It's not hard to understand.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 6:55PM Liquidfingers said

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@The angry pro consumer gaming ga

i really don't see how Gears 3 is somehow more "forgettable" than Uncharted 3.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 7:12PM Omega2822 said

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@Liquidfingers

There was a Gears 3?
Oh yeah, something about the world suddenly being dangerously close to blowing up. Wait what?
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 7:23PM (Unverified) said

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@singleandlovinit Scores dont mean anything, get that through your head, this is a list of the entire staff of what they enjoyed this year, they were tired with Uncharted and Zelda, now can everyone stop bitching about it? All the games on the list felt fresh and new
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 7:25PM The Nth Doctor said

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@Alex Trebek The star system is about recommending games to levels of enthusiast (with 5 being anyone could enjoy it, and as you go lower the experience becomes more and more niche). A lower score does not necessitate a worse game.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 7:38PM Draugdraugr said

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@8bitartist

I dont want ot ruin the surprise but all of these games were mutliplatform release. if you're surprised you didn't see any single platform games then I don't know what to say

Yes, Witcher 2, Uncharted, SKyrim sword were all good games. but since they are currently on a single platform they clearly weren't even considered.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 8:01PM Ruinkind said

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@Naru now in 3D

Griffen actually explains why Skyward Sword didn't make Joystiq's Top 10, but you have to look in his personal best-of-the-rest list. I will quote his explanation here:

"Had a good 15 hours been shaved off of this bloated adventure, it easily would have placed atop Joystiq's list of 2011 standouts. Still, even with the backtracking and inane sidequesting, Skyward Sword offers one of the most memorable campaigns in the franchise's history, alongside razor-sharp motion controls that could serve as a fitting swan song for the Nintendo Wii."
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 8:47PM Liquidfingers said

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@Omega2822

there was an Uncharted 3? oh yeah something about uhh...something...and special water that makes you hallucinate...and stuff

see what i did there?
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 9:25PM Omega2822 said

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@Liquidfingers at least the water plot followed something Uncharted would do, and fell right in line with the ENTIRE theme of the story was my ultimate point in the sarcastic comment about Gear 3.

Gears 3 pulled "world exploding" out of its ass. Literally. Plot twist in an action game? Want to really put the player "all in" and get the adrenaline pumping? Want to really cliche it up and make the player want to succeed!!!? We threaten the entire planet with an explosion! Woo!
My words may not be all that funny, or have enough emphasis of how "forgettable" that whole thing was - but Yahtzee on the Escapist puts it quite blunt.
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 9:42PM Tephlon said

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@8bitartist

Everyone needs to understand some things-

1. This is not a list that is batted about amongst all the editors to ensure that everyone agrees on the selections. Every editor submits their top 10 (privately), and Luddy throws all of them through a crazy formula that weighs all entries and spits out a top 10. That's the final list, end of story.

2. The editors understand that the higher they place a game on their list, the more weight it will have and better chance for it to make final list AT ALL. So the editors stack their list to help give 'their personal favorites' more weight.

3. If two (or more) people stick a game they don't think will get any recognition up unto a really high spot (like say, Bastion, for instance), it ends up with 'more weight' than they were expecting and a game they hoped would make 8 or 9 or 10 lands at 5. In that same vein, if an editor assumes SOMEONE will place a game high up on their (say, Uncharted 3), they feel free to use their slot on something else ("Surely Uncharted will make it!", they say). It's very possible this is nothing more than a case of everyone expecting someone else to put it on their list, only to later find no one did.

Joystiq's list is almost like a crazy white elephant gift game for the folks at joystiq. There's strategy and bargaining and guessing and bluffing and fake outs. While you might find it to be an injustice to your favorite game, it's pretty fun for the joystiq staff and anyone in the community close enough to understand the process and appreciate the unique personalities found in this great group of reviewers (following their podcasts makes this pretty easy).

Game critique, like every other form of criticism, is about learning the personal preferences and tastes of the critic (reviewer) and weighing their opinion against those of others. This list isn't meant to hurt you personally.
Joystiq is also not some soulless machine with an overarching agenda. It's comprised of individual people, and in a way, the site is a tool to push their own personal opinions around for others to enjoy and consider. If you don't like the results of these peoples opinions, you have plenty of other sites to choose from.

TL:DR Joystiq isn't the only site out there with a top 10 list
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 10:02PM (Unverified) said

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@Omega2822 Yahtzee emphasizes the negatives in a game and there were a lot more in Uncharted and Skyward Sword. But from my point of view, Gears had one of the most cliched storlines ever, but it was still enjoyable and you felt compelled to the character. I also don't play a game for story, I would watch a movie instead. And with gameplay Gears sure delivered. Cover based shooting done right, smooth controls, interesting maps, and everything is polished to hell. You can tell the developers took their time. Once you put multiplayer into perspective, this game just blows you away
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 10:29PM kentuckyfried said

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@Alex Trebek

This's what you guys get for not buying the game and recognizing its awesomeness, on release day. =D
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Posted: Jan 4th 2012 11:06PM Tephlon said

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@Lucky48

Thanks.
I actually agree with you, at least in a way. I'm perfectly fine accepting that this is the way they do their top 10, and I actually think it's fun and different.

However...

I think if they choose to do their list this way they should make a bigger effort to make the community understand it. It's well and good that I listen to the podcasts and whatnot, but I don't think one should HAVE to do so just to understand this crazy process they have in place.

I'm happy they have the balls to do their own thing, but it almost seems like they don't have the balls to call enough attention to the fact that it's different. Maybe they're afraid that admitting their list isn't carefully discussed, honed, and polished as a group effort will create an impression that they aren't serious journalists or something? I dunno.

While I absolutely love the guys (and gal) who work (or worked) for the 'stiq, and I love this crazy list they do every year, I can certainly agree that the community deserves a bit more from them.
Either fully explain the process and make sure it's known and understood, or standardize it to be more like what the average reader expects it would be.

Personally I'm fine either way.
Again, I think it's unique and worth while. It just needs to be better advertised.
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Posted: Jan 5th 2012 2:15AM Draugdraugr said

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@Lucky48

Ahh lol. yeah, duhh I totally spaced that. Theory invalidated.
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Posted: Jan 5th 2012 4:44AM gillri said

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@8bitartist

indeed Mortal Kombat, Shadows of the Damned, Saints Row better than Uncharted 3 and Skyward sword?
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