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Reader Comments (87)

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:11PM jblank said

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RPG's aren't the most popular games of THIS era of gaming. The shooter has surpassed it and all you have to do is look at sales and online play charts to see that the Halo's, Gears of War's, Call of Duty's, and Battlefields dominate. I think RPG's, for the most part, have even been passed by casual games at this point.

Skyrim is still incredible though.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:17PM blessrok said

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@jblank "AMONG the most popular"

not THE most popular.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:24PM creid8 said

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IMO Obsidian's biggest problem is that no one gives them the time or money to really finish their games. KOTOR 2 obviously wasn't done yet, Alpha Protocol could've used another 6 months of dev time, and I feel like the list goes on. I really feel for them.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:27PM TacoHell said

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WRPGs is one of my favorite genres, not only because it usually gives player so much control, but because diversity it has. It's the only genre I know where I can mention System Shock 2 and Torchlight in the same sentence and still be talking about the same thing.

Also: Obsidian has amazing writers, one of the greatest in the industry but they are constantly let down by their programmers(bugs), producers(Alpha Protocol in general), or publishers. I can only hope that one day they're able to pass all those hurdles to make a really spectacular RPG experience.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:28PM Rommel102 said

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IMHO, no RPG will ever be as thoroughly engrossing and rich as Ultima 7 & 7.5. Truly the pinnacle of the party based RPG system, and until Skyrim I don't think any modern RPG has come close to the richness of the experience.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:31PM philpee2 said

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How about a quick history lesson? An overview of how RPGs came to be, how they've evolved, and where certain elements that we've become accustomed to originated would make for an interesting article.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:57PM (Unverified) said

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@philpee2 - I love everything about that idea except for the word "quick". In order to give such a story the context it deserves, it wouldn't really fit in this column (around 1000 words is the aim).

To give an idea of what we're looking at, I started working on a book on the genre-based history of video games in the 1990s, and got a few chapters done before getting pulled away by more directly paid writing. One of those chapters was on PC RPGs from 1990-1995. It was 12,000 words. Obviously not all of those are important for a *quick* column, but even if I edited that down to a fourth of the words, that's 3 columns for a five-year span of a 30+ - year story.

But since what you're talking about is definitely one of my focuses, look for it to show up throughout the column, especially when dealing with history. This piece, for example, has quite a bit. The Ultima one for two weeks from now will be very much that. And down the line I'm sure I'll talk about Wizardry and Dungeon Master and Lands Of Lore and so on.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:00PM blessrok said

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@philpee2 good suggestion
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:50PM ripvanwinkle said

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Who got my AV Club in my Joystiq?

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:10PM (Unverified) said

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@ripvanwinkle - WHERE'S FIREFLY
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:20PM ripvanwinkle said

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@(Unverified) needs more dawes
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:53PM ZexionArmando said

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Just talk more about the perfection that is Morrowind, and I will be good, lol

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 3:55PM KyGuyTC7 said

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As a kid I loved JRPGs but but now I have trouble getting immersed in them. It seems WRPGs have some quality that keeps me entertained and engaged.

Last JRPG I played was Dragon Quest IX, I stopped at about 20 hours. I have since put 150+ hours into Bethesda titles...

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:07PM Vidikron said

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So are we talking about WRPG as a style or based purely on the location of the developer? The article seems to talk about them in terms of developer geography, but I've always thought of them in terms of style. For example, Dark Souls is a very much like a Western style RPG, but it comes from a Japanese company.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:24PM (Unverified) said

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@Vidikron - Very much geography. Obviously there are stylistic difference, but those stylistic differences are not as great as everyone assumes. Stereotype is that WRPGs are system-based and JRPGs are story-based, but games like Betrayal At Krondor or Dragon Age are very story-based, and the entire Tactical RPG subgenre of JRPGs are some of the most complex system-based games of all time.

Going into this kind of thing will lead to fruitful discussion, though. And I'm not exactly super happy about the "western" denotation for these games, but it's less confusing than PC vs console, the historical divide, or system vs story-based RPGs.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:29PM (Unverified) said

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@Vidikron - oh, and the geography is pretty much to avoid stepping on Jason's toes for his JRPG column. It's not that I dislike Japanese developers, just that we already have someone writing about them.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:59PM 9inchsamurai said

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@(Unverified) I'd really enjoy reading your analysis as to how the stylistic differences aren't as complex as one would think, because I'm a staunch believer in the opposite.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:26PM (Unverified) said

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@9inchsamurai - yeah, most people are! Kinda getting the itch to write about Lands Of Lore, will probably do a lot of that there.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:56PM urgan said

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What does Fable count as? Is it western? Is it RPG? It seems like a Westernish RPGish kind of game to me...

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 4:57PM 9inchsamurai said

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If only the weekly JRPG articles went this in-depth in their analysis...

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:26PM Dooliss said

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Borderlands?

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:27PM (Unverified) said

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@Dooliss - What about it? Is it an RPG? Have I played it? Am I going to write about it? Do I like it?

(yes, yes, no current plans, no)
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:46PM sonicspike41 said

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@(Unverified)

What didn't you like about Borderlands, and is it something you think a sequel could fix?

The story was only mildly interesting, the gameplay was quite repetitive at times, going through it solo is nowhere near as fun as co-op, the weapons system is ridiculous (both good and bad) but I still overall found it enjoyable. Enjoyable enough to warrant a sequel at least and give them another chance.

It's like Assassin's Creed. Despite the notable flaws of the first game I still enjoyed it, and when given the chance the developer managed to vastly improve everything about it.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:13PM Dooliss said

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@sonicspike41

exactly what im getting at. A western rpg with decent execution but great promise. cant wait for 2.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 5:36PM SonyPS said

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This sounds like an interesting idea. Looking forward to reading this

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 7:59PM matrices said

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It's all navel-gazing without proper definitions. What defines an RPG? Stats and perks? Inventories? Crafting? Dialogue? Choices? I think all those characteristics, which exist to some degree or none at all in many games that many people call RPGs, have one central element in common: freedom.

If you have the freedom to impact the story, to mold the character's personality, to choose her or his gear, and to select allies, you're probably playing an RPG.

Others can waste 10 pages and their lives navel-gazing about whether Skyrim is an RPG, etc.; I'll just spend my time enjoying it, thank you very much.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:13PM D4rk 0p3rative said

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@matrices

This is true! If you are playing a role in the game's world and shaping the world with your decisions, you are playing an RPG. Personally, I can never understand why people will constantly complain about whether Skyrim or ME2 are RPGs or not.

Bottom Line: They are both great games. Whether they are RPGs or not does not take away the fun you'll have playing either.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 8:57PM (Unverified) said

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@matrices - so, tell me how you really feel about naval-gazing.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2012 9:04PM louis731 said

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I love RPGs but sadly this is an era of Call of Duty. It seems only the Japanese still constantly make classic RPGs these days.

Yeah I know there are some game like Mass Effect and Borderland, but they are not so much RPGs but action/shooter games, IMO.

Posted: Jan 13th 2012 11:53PM (Unverified) said

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While I will completely dismiss a bullets and bombs WRPG, I will sit in front of a swords and spells WRPG for hundreds of hours. Fallout 3 New Vegas... 35 hours and done, Skyrim... 275 hours and still going strong. it just gets old finding ammo and looking for the next big gun, while swordsmanship and magic (if you will) improve with use as skills would in real life. I don't miss out on Fallout or Mass Effect, I just can't get into them and it's not for lack of trying, they just dont hold me. We need Oblivion killers and lots of them.

Posted: Jan 14th 2012 12:55AM GhostH said

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I want to see the return of the 16Bit RPG/Adventure game. Some of my favourite games were Landstalker and Sword of Vermillion. I'd like to see some talented Indie developers come up with something like those kind of games, except with modern gameplay/combat mechanics, platforming etc.

Talking about Bioware and Bethesda RPG's isn't that interesting to tell you the truth, I prefer Elder Scrolls myself and it's not surprising to me that they're more popular than Bioware games.

Posted: Jan 17th 2012 5:04PM TrueWhiteBoy said

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@GhostH

I'd love a good multiplayer, top-down, Secret of Mana sequel :)
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Posted: Jan 14th 2012 1:25AM Sniper Specops said

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Lol, I saw western rpg, got so excited with nothing but Red Dead Redemption on my mind as I opened the article... then laughed at myself, heh.

Posted: Jan 14th 2012 6:22AM zarx said

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I would love it if you dived into Spiderweb software's body of work, especially the Geneforge series. No one else makes oldschool WRPGs quite like Jeff does.

Posted: Jan 14th 2012 5:21PM zombieguy said

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Cool article. Reminds me that although I have some older JRPG's under my belt, I have barely played any older WRPG's. When done right, everything JRPG's do compared to western ones, but I love them both. I think I'm going to dive into the first witcher here soon but I'd love to go back to the 90's and early 00's, maybe some baldur's gate here soon. :D

Anyways, I think RPG's are looking more promising than ever. Kingdom's of Amalur just looks amazing, perhaps a day one buy for me depending on what some of the reviews say. And for JRPG's... Ni No Kuni and, of course, Xenoblade. Great times to be an RPG fan.

Posted: Jan 14th 2012 5:24PM zombieguy said

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@zombieguy

argh. edit: when done right, I prefer everything JRPG's do compared to western ones.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2012 8:35AM EolianPipes said

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Great article! This is going to be a good weekly read and I look forward to more.

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