Zynga has been struggling with its stock price since the IPO late last year, and Sterne Agee analyst Arvind Bhatia says there are more dark days ahead. When you compare Zynga's $120 million marketing budget to its recent rise in only 400,000 new players (about $300 a person), the numbers don't look good: "We know that, on average, these people are spending about $150 or so," says Bhatia, which suggests that Zynga is spending about $300 for every $150 in profit. "That math won't work for very long," obviously.
Zynga's spending is indicative of a few trends in social gaming. First, the company has discovered it's very hard to earn new players. Many of Zynga's games are similar, and without really experimenting, it's going to be hard to generate uniques. Second, Zynga's earnings are based on "whales": A small percentage of players who spend big. You need to find a lot of unique free-to-play players to land a few whales, and Bhatia doesn't see Zynga doing that lately.
So what's the solution? "Zynga will have to find their next FarmVille," says Bhatia. Until the company finds another phenomenally popular hit and the surge in new players that comes along with it (which is incredibly tough to do), Bhatia expects to see even more problems with Zynga and its stock.
Reader Comments (56)
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:34PM CaptainProtonX said
""Zynga will have to find their next FarmVille,""
Hmmm...I GOT IT!
Farmville 2!
Hmmm...I GOT IT!
Farmville 2!
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:34PM Macabre 13 said
Will be thrilled if / when this ship sinks.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 11:37PM Stevetrop Man of Mystery said
@Macabre 13
I'm hoping there is no if but rather a when.
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I'm hoping there is no if but rather a when.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:35PM spin cycle said
.com boom.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:36PM gettinmoney662 said
Oh really? A customer base made up entirely of casual gamers doesn't last? What a surprise!
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:13PM baddates77 said
@gettinmoney662 This is a surprising turn of events. What will happen next? Is the sun going to rise in the East tomorrow?
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 12:26AM MacMog said
@gettinmoney662
So do you mean that plenty of hardcore gamers play The Sims or Harvest Moon (no relation to Farmville)? Both of those series have sold well for over a decade.
No, Zynga will fail because they don’t really make games. They make colorful work emulators where you do the same thing day in and day out, punctuated by decreasingly interesting random events and increasing needs to harass your social network friends.
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So do you mean that plenty of hardcore gamers play The Sims or Harvest Moon (no relation to Farmville)? Both of those series have sold well for over a decade.
No, Zynga will fail because they don’t really make games. They make colorful work emulators where you do the same thing day in and day out, punctuated by decreasingly interesting random events and increasing needs to harass your social network friends.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:38PM Dooliss said
Mission accomplished.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:53PM Fiasco said
I'm not sure who is going I crash and burn first.
Zynga or Rovio?
Zynga or Rovio?
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 2:38AM Ashkental said
@Fiasco
Zynga because even rovio having 1 hit franchise they successfully managed the "Star Wars" model, wich is selling other things that are not only the Main Franchise (George Lucas was more genius doing that than actually by coming up with star wars). Rovio makes money out of toys, shirts, bags, and everything Angry Birds related, I heard they are even making a cartoon out of it. Farmville or any ville for that matter can't do that, they're not as mainstream as rovio is in terms of appearing everywhere.
I expect Rovio to still make tons of money and Zynga to start sinking unless investing in inovation.
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Zynga because even rovio having 1 hit franchise they successfully managed the "Star Wars" model, wich is selling other things that are not only the Main Franchise (George Lucas was more genius doing that than actually by coming up with star wars). Rovio makes money out of toys, shirts, bags, and everything Angry Birds related, I heard they are even making a cartoon out of it. Farmville or any ville for that matter can't do that, they're not as mainstream as rovio is in terms of appearing everywhere.
I expect Rovio to still make tons of money and Zynga to start sinking unless investing in inovation.
Posted: Jan 23rd 2012 2:35PM TheHyphenator said
@Ashkental
Agreed. Rovio has successfully created a franchise with identifiable characters that have been plastered all over physical merchandise. Angry Birds may or may not eventually lose its charm for people, but for now, Rovio is golden. They're going to be raking in money for a long while yet. Zynga, on the other hand, based its entire business model on making the same derivative games over and over with obvious reskins (which were themselves copied or outright stolen from other games) and depending on 1% of the players being gullible enough to spend a lot on the game. Obviously, it's a strategy that worked for a while, but even idiots will get wise when you do the same thing over and over right in front of them. Unless they've got something new and innovative up their sleeve (which is completely against their corporate strategy up to this point) they're going to rapidly wither and die now that people have seemingly caught on.
That, or I suppose they could talk one of the software megagiants into acquiring them and paying $500 mil to un-wither their company. Now THAT would be delicious.
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Agreed. Rovio has successfully created a franchise with identifiable characters that have been plastered all over physical merchandise. Angry Birds may or may not eventually lose its charm for people, but for now, Rovio is golden. They're going to be raking in money for a long while yet. Zynga, on the other hand, based its entire business model on making the same derivative games over and over with obvious reskins (which were themselves copied or outright stolen from other games) and depending on 1% of the players being gullible enough to spend a lot on the game. Obviously, it's a strategy that worked for a while, but even idiots will get wise when you do the same thing over and over right in front of them. Unless they've got something new and innovative up their sleeve (which is completely against their corporate strategy up to this point) they're going to rapidly wither and die now that people have seemingly caught on.
That, or I suppose they could talk one of the software megagiants into acquiring them and paying $500 mil to un-wither their company. Now THAT would be delicious.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:54PM aea0a095 said
"So what's the solution? "Zynga will have to find their next FarmVille,""
Uh, no, they just need to spend way less in advertising. If your advertising is costing you 130 million USD for a casual game on facebook then your doing it wrong.
Uh, no, they just need to spend way less in advertising. If your advertising is costing you 130 million USD for a casual game on facebook then your doing it wrong.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 7:59PM oOWallaceOo said
I don't know how anyone at Zynga didn't see this coming, pretty sure even Michael Pachter saw this coming.
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 2:25AM WeRequireMOARMinerals said
@oOWallaceOo Naw, he probably thought Zynga would be the new Nintendo or something stupid, like he always does.
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Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:01PM mrmobius said
First, think speak for most when I say Yay!
Second, who spends $150+ on Farmville?
Third, think we all saw this coming a long time ago.
It'd be disappointing for people to become unemployed, but it'd be for the greater good, and if they are decent programmers, they'll find jobs somewhere better.
Second, who spends $150+ on Farmville?
Third, think we all saw this coming a long time ago.
It'd be disappointing for people to become unemployed, but it'd be for the greater good, and if they are decent programmers, they'll find jobs somewhere better.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:04PM Thesifer said
I think Zynga's problem is the fact that they don't have a single creative mind in their entire company. You can't just rip off other peoples IP's and expect it to work in the long term.
Their newest game is "Hidden Chronicles" even the advertising clearly states that it's "Gardens of Time" with a new skin (Gardens of Time for those that don't know isn't their IP - But it DID win a Best of Facebook award.)
Zynga needs to hire ACTUAL GAME DEVELOPERS. If they did that, they could even cut the advertising budget down, and rely at least somewhat on word of mouth for truly innovative creations.
Their newest game is "Hidden Chronicles" even the advertising clearly states that it's "Gardens of Time" with a new skin (Gardens of Time for those that don't know isn't their IP - But it DID win a Best of Facebook award.)
Zynga needs to hire ACTUAL GAME DEVELOPERS. If they did that, they could even cut the advertising budget down, and rely at least somewhat on word of mouth for truly innovative creations.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 10:16PM Zimmy said
@Thesifer I would say the bigger problem is actually that companies can just copy other people's work and hugely profit from it in most industries. Look at David and Goliath clothing and the utterly ludicrous amount of plagiarism in that company. Seriously there is an entire website with a HUGE list of the stuff they have taken.
In household appliances the company Vax made cheap copies of Dyson products then 'persuaded' stores to place the products next to each other to create confusion.
Or with Zynga, Even if it eventually ends up ruining the company all the founders, high ups in the company etc will still be multi-millionaires. While the people who were ripped off will be lucky if they managed to get their case to court and get a settlement that is a fraction of what Zynga earned.
In games it is often worse because it's very easy to slightly alter things but have them be classed as different. Gameloft have done insanely well out of taking popular games and changing them just enough that they are different yet still easily recognizable as like that game. Rovio basically reskinned a newgrounds game and made vast amounts.
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In household appliances the company Vax made cheap copies of Dyson products then 'persuaded' stores to place the products next to each other to create confusion.
Or with Zynga, Even if it eventually ends up ruining the company all the founders, high ups in the company etc will still be multi-millionaires. While the people who were ripped off will be lucky if they managed to get their case to court and get a settlement that is a fraction of what Zynga earned.
In games it is often worse because it's very easy to slightly alter things but have them be classed as different. Gameloft have done insanely well out of taking popular games and changing them just enough that they are different yet still easily recognizable as like that game. Rovio basically reskinned a newgrounds game and made vast amounts.
Posted: Jan 23rd 2012 8:41AM HandsomeBoyGraduate said
@Thesifer
Lot of theory... but I can't help buy just think the REAL problem is actually investing long-term in a short-attn span casual game.
Its not like gaming is new... its not like the internet is new... if these guys couldn't tell that their games are the digital equivalent of Giga Pets or jelly bracelets, then they deserve to lose their money for their short sighted stupidity. With this kind of product, you gotta hit and run. Make some money, then get out and move on. Not blow $130 mil on advertising.
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Lot of theory... but I can't help buy just think the REAL problem is actually investing long-term in a short-attn span casual game.
Its not like gaming is new... its not like the internet is new... if these guys couldn't tell that their games are the digital equivalent of Giga Pets or jelly bracelets, then they deserve to lose their money for their short sighted stupidity. With this kind of product, you gotta hit and run. Make some money, then get out and move on. Not blow $130 mil on advertising.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:10PM Zimmy said
Zynga will have to find their next farmville..... so this means they are just going to look through newly released games that are doing moderately well, steal them, then release it with a bigger marketing budget again?
Seriously the faster Zynga goes broke the better. They are the criminals of the gaming world. Outright copy competitors' games, if a lawsuit pops up then just offer them enough money to go away.
Seriously the faster Zynga goes broke the better. They are the criminals of the gaming world. Outright copy competitors' games, if a lawsuit pops up then just offer them enough money to go away.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:20PM db2 said
Good riddance.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:29PM PointlessPuppies said
This is what happens when you make a "gaming company" that's a complete fake. They're fake games that only attract fake consumers. Yes, you get easy ways of making fast cash for a couple of years, but it doesn't get you anywhere if you lack the insight and devotion that actually good game developers possess.
Zynga has hit its peak, and it's only going to get worse for them from now on. It goes to show that there is simply no shortcut to being truly successful in the gaming industry. These guys shamelessly took every shortcut and cut every corner, only for their racecar to sputter and topple from all the violent turns and jumping on rocky terrain.
Zynga has hit its peak, and it's only going to get worse for them from now on. It goes to show that there is simply no shortcut to being truly successful in the gaming industry. These guys shamelessly took every shortcut and cut every corner, only for their racecar to sputter and topple from all the violent turns and jumping on rocky terrain.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:33PM Styli said
Am I the only one who smiled reading this?
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 2:33AM WeRequireMOARMinerals said
@Styli It's on par with cute puppies being rescued. One can't help but smile.
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Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:35PM Midgetkicker said
Zynga? Similar games? Who knew?
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:38PM Warlock234 said
Basically their plan with the "with Friends" series of games is horrible. Pay to play really doesn't work, and what are they thinking spending $120 million on marketing? So amazing how stupid these companies are.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:44PM OGC said
Ha I was wondering when this was going to happen. So many played farmville, then they played another of Zynga's games, then they got hip and realized they're basically the same and decided there's no reason to try another.
On top of waning popularity of their games (relatively of course), few new users, and people finally getting smart...it's not looking to good for Zynga :)
On top of waning popularity of their games (relatively of course), few new users, and people finally getting smart...it's not looking to good for Zynga :)
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:46PM admford said
Given Mark Pincus' greed for rescinding unvested stock which were given to employees when they signed on, and giving them the only option of being fired if they refused.
The lack of any imagination in their games & their problems of keeping players interested in the games and returning to play them.
The whole IPO seems more and more like what a number of people have suspected. A massive pump and dump scheme to make Pincus and other investors richer, without giving a care of the employees slaving away (read the glassdoor.com comments on Zynga's work atmosphere).
The lack of any imagination in their games & their problems of keeping players interested in the games and returning to play them.
The whole IPO seems more and more like what a number of people have suspected. A massive pump and dump scheme to make Pincus and other investors richer, without giving a care of the employees slaving away (read the glassdoor.com comments on Zynga's work atmosphere).
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:52PM Arcaria said
@Fiasco Zynga should win that one pretty easily. Actually, I think it'll be a landslide.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 8:53PM shard765 said
This puts a smile on my face.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 9:16PM freelancer91 said
DIE DIE DIE!!!!!
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 9:33PM arucious said
Think of what indie developers could have done with that cash..
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 10:01PM SushiGummy said
Quick! Everybody play Zynga games so that they can die faster!
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 10:28PM MEGATOOL said
What this tells me is that casual gaming doesn't have a lasting appeal. Sure, you might get lucky with a game that's popular for a while, but then the casuals will get bored and move on to the next thing.
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 10:37PM rezhoner said
I now see the light... the video game industry might finnaly have good days coming..
Posted: Jan 21st 2012 11:39PM Stevetrop Man of Mystery said
Finally after so much negative news buzzing about it's nice to hear something good.
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 12:31AM MacMog said
Accounting error in the post: you say “profit” when talking about money Zynga takes in from customers when you mean “revenue”. Profit equals revenue minus cost. If they really spend $300 for every $150 in profit, that means $450 in revenue and an amazingly successful business. If they spend $300 and only take in $150 in revenue, that’s a loss of $150 (or, if you prefer, a negative profit).
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 1:44AM Raquor said
They have a couple ok phone games in words with friends and hanging with friends. That being said they made the game that spammed everyone on Facebook, good bye zynga...
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 8:28AM malexandria1 said
Wow, $130 million dollars??? I honestly don't think I've ever seen a Zynga add outside of facebook. Where is that money going besides coke and prostitutes?
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 9:13AM (Unverified) said
Zynga meet Nintendo. Casual doesn't last.
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 10:14AM sodbuster said
Ok, I might be a stick in the mud. But a farm where cows just stand there, and you dont have to feed them. EVERY GAME I played on F/B was totaly stupid ! Good bye zynga, you sucked in my book from day 1. How stupid could anyone be? I would like to know how many people paid them real $$$$? Also who they are , I have several bridges I would like to sell, only $10.00 each. And for the grammer police byte me
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 12:43PM Rocket Raccoon said
Good! Not that I want the programmers to be out of work. I'm mostly glad because it might show other publishers that they can't make garbage games like this and hope to survive.
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 2:04PM Slight of Ham said
F U Zynga, I hope you fail on every level.
Posted: Jan 22nd 2012 2:17PM monkey man said
Zynga games remind me of animal crossing.






