38 Studios head Curt Schilling elaborates on Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning online pass quest lockout

@sonofman


You get a different feeling when you download 200 megs of data than downloading 178kb of data.

One gives you the feeling of "Oh yay, Free DLC". The other gives off a "Oh great, I'm unlocking something from the Disc".

@xiLeShadow Epic Games has even ousted other developers who pad DLC files with large HD videos so that the files look big, but they just unlock content that's just on the disc: http://kotaku.com/5856425/gears-of-war-3-creator-explains-why-theyre-charging-to-unlock-content-thats-already-on-the-disc

@xiLeShadow

I'm shocked that your comment has been upvoted so much. Sure, it might feel better to download more data, but what does it even matter? The content is quite obviously finished in time for publishing, but there was an executive decision to lock some customers out of it.

If the content was not finished in time for publishing, don't you think they should be spending time on fixing the game instead? More and more games ship broken and vilely bug-ridden these days, but that doesn't matter to publishers because we just open our wallets up anyway.

Anyone can tell you this is an attempt to get more people to buy day one, but let's be honest - how many of you heard about this questline and thought "Okay, yeah, I have to buy this new so I can play those quests and get an extra hour out of the game"..? This is not at all a reward, nor is it an incentive. It's punishment for not having $60 ready to commit at launch.

Why would we ever rationalize publishers taking content away? Even if it doesn't affect you personally with this particular game, you must buy games on sale, buy used games yourself or know someone who does. I can understand people not getting up in arms about this because honestly it's not the biggest problem in the world, but defending it? I don't get it. With SOPA / PIPA so fresh in our minds I would think we'd be slightly more aware of how little those businesses care about us.

@xiLeShadow Yeah so you're happy to wear the blinders, eh?

I don't agree with Schilling, and that's certainly not "the way things are done" just because EA and Sony do it; the industry has been around for centuries without that nonsense.

This is just Schilling shilling. As a Red Sox fan I can't hate him, but I do hate EA and that's good enough.

@xiLeShadow

wtf?! hahaha is this how stupid gamers have become. Having a different "feelings" over file sizes. I'm almost at a loss for words how incredibly stupid it sounds. Its like you're almost happy wearing this blind goggle. I hope from now on EA and all other companies start actually cutting the actual file from disc and just doing it though DLC so in 6 months i can hear you bitch and whine about that too.

@jsx92

What you guys talking about?

I'm against all this. I'm just saying, to the normal gamer who doesn't follow all these blogs. It makes sense that he/she will feel a little better if the file size of the DLC is big.

@xiLeShadow

I wonder if the "normal gamer" even notices the file size differences and knows the difference.

@Electrium I will say this, I do NOT like Day 1 unlocking content, it feels really ugly for the people with no internet connection. There must be better way than this.

THAT SAID (yay caps), your statement about if the content wasn't finished in time for publishing they should have spent the time fixing the game. There are many things wrong about your statement. First off, content in the game is locked between 3 and 9 months before launch, depending on the developer. That means that no new content can be added to the game, only polish and bug fixing. Artists and designers finish about this time. This is also about the time they get laid off. What do they do instead now? They concept out and start developing DLC while the programmers are bug fixing.
All right, so the game is done, it's about a month and a half from launch because the game has to be approved by MS and Sony, then go to the disc creator. Again, a ton of people normally get laid off here. So what do they do? Well, a whole bunch go in to further testing a bug fixing anything not found (from what I've heard, the final game of this is actually fairly bug free), while the rest build DLC.
1-2 weeks from release, you have done DLC, you submit it to MS and Sony, it's approved, you release it.
It's not as nefarious as you make it out to be. I've bought games used, but I don't really like to. I see both sides of the argument. If I buy it new, the seller gets ~1-2 dollars off the sale, same for new consoles. This is not enough to run a business. Used, though, the creators get nothing. So, they use incentives to convince the customer to buy new. I think it kind of sucks, but I also see where they're coming from.

@sonofman

Someone from the PR department at 38 Studios knows what they're doing.

Rebranding day-one DLC as a "gift" to early adopters is certainly one way to go. Either way, the content was held from the full game near the time of release.

@wh1terav3n

I don't know what stores you've talked to but sellers don't get 1-2 dollars per sale. They make a sizeable amount on new games.

@sonofman
My thoughts exactly. What does it matter, if it's on the disc or not?
I was gonna preorder this, but now I'll just not buy it. Same as I did with Batman: Arkham City even if it pains me to have missed one of the greatest games in recent time. Publishers can only do this as long as we play along.
As a consumer this is our only way of protest and it's our own fault if it only gets worse from here, because we don't make use of it.

@xiLeShadow

not sure why people even use GameStop, to be honest. i'd much rather take advantage of the awesome sales on Amazon or Steam.

@Liquidfingers

Gamestop has a lot of potential to become big in the PC gaming market. However, they are right now to concerted with the console market.

Soon enough when those used game sales start dropping like hot cakes, they might start grasping that potential. And if they become a friendly PC gaming store, I'll support them. For now, there are better options.

Gamefly will also start seeing huge drops in console rentals, since many games will start using these online passes. Maybe that is the reason why they now own the Number 2 PC gaming digital outlet and are in Beta testing for the PC game rentals.


So yeah, soon traditional console-centric outlets will start expanding to other platforms like Mobile or PC, since they have no choice.

@xiLeShadow

Gamestop being a PC gaming store primarily makes no sense. PC gaming has long been way less friendly to the used game market than console games (hello product keys). The console game market will continue to be lucrative, even if they can't leverage used games as much as they can now (and let's not kid ourselves, Gamestop is taking you for a ride when you trade in games and isn't saving you much more than 5-10 bucks when you buy used).

@xiLeShadow I disagree about Gamefly. Gamefly is a hotbed to get games with Online Passes because you can play and beat the games in one month w/o ever having to worry paying full price. Usually these kind of games have short single player campaigns (like COD).

If someone wanted to play online, they'll just buy the online pass for 10 bucks and play that for the rest of the month. It's not really a big issue to a gamefly customer. When the month is up, it's onto a new game. They only end up spending 15-25 vs 60.

@xiLeShadow PC games have all but vanished from Gamestop. As someone stated already, there's not much profit in the used PC game market.

@Flapjackal

I'm not talking about Used PC games. I'm talking about Digital PC games.

They get around 25% of the game's cost for their own revenue from Impulse. That is about bit more than traditional brick and mortar store sales and you can do that without lifting a finger.

Just a bunch of servers and well maintained website and game client. They can also do what Green Man Gaming is doing and allow PC gamers to trade in their digital games for credit. Since Gamestop will control Impulse this is much easier to do for them.


And to Gamefly, I'm talking about later. If publishers and console makers put strict restrictions on game use Gamefly will have to find a way to do business. I'm talking about One Key Per Disc Restriction. You needing that one key to unlock the game in total, not just a portion.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly Yeah basically all it is is them just thinking they need money from second hand sales which they really shouldn't get any money from. Like what XileShadow said it wouldn't surprise me if Gamestop started to sell pc games as a primary instead of the consoles because on pc we don't have to deal with all this crap cause 99.9% no matter where you get your pc game its a new copy.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

I would sooooo agree with you, but some of us have trouble getting a hot date.


....kidding, don't feel bad for me, I have a pretty girlfriend!

I swear, I'm not just saying that so you don't feel bad for me!

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

Assuming your alternative to consoles is PC gaming, which is even more DRM-ridden, I wish you the best of luck.

@thatlameguy

she may be pretty to you, but in reality..... ;)

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

But why won't you buy a game because it has an online pass?

What is your holy justification for it? Does it bother you SO MUCH that some schmuck in another state is getting shafted because he decided to save $5 by buying used? Considering that used game @ Gamestop are usually $5 cheaper than new, $10 at MOST, your reasoning is totally flawed.

@thatlameguy ROFL

awesome reply dude

@KodyxDestroyer

I'm a young guy but every PC Game I have ever bought has been new, not because I wanted to support the developer, but because they required an activation code that was included in new products.

The PC game retail products have had the same tactic in place since I can remember that people are complaining about the console game producers using now. You can't trade in PC games because this activation code has been used and the game is no longer the same value so the game store don't want it, thus there is a limited used PC games market and forces people to buy new copies which will give the developer the deserved cut of the sale that a used sale wouldn't.

The console producers want to ruin the used game market to make more money, and ultimately have you buying new copies instead just like the PC producers already have you.

@Electrium Nah no pc gaming.

Im an Art Director/Photog/Illustrator and i have to make time for hot dates too. I have enough to keep me busy otherwise.

So between those and a WTF game choice, i pick the latter(s)

@BoBsS

Your own reasoning is completely flawed if you are assuming everyone buys used games at GS.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly
Yep. Didn't buy Arkham City because of their version of it and won't buy Twisted Metal because of it. For how smart people that play video games can be, they are the dumbest group of people in the world because they let this garbage happen and then wonder why it got so bad. You guys bought a mostly old map pack for $15, that's how it got so bad!

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly
Agree 100%. If next gen consoles are DRM heavy like PC then I'll just stick to the classics. If I havent played it already its new to me.

@BoBsS

Nah dude, your reasoning doesn't make sense- it sounds more like your feelings than logic.

• in order to have a used game, it was paid for already. That means dev got money. i dont send canon money when i sell my camera. so wtf am i sending devs extra money for? a product is a product , no matter the category. after the first purchase, its no longer in the industry's inventory.
• as a customer u make a choice to buy new or used, so no one got shafted
• online pass for multiplayer- no matter how many times a game would be repurchased, it still uses the same network resource- one user. That single game will never ever consume more than one user. Dont bother trying to say multiple profiles…those profiles are mere bits that cost devs nada.
• user tracking: what do you think companies are doing with all your online pass info? selling it. do you or other customers see any of that money? Of course not. Do you feel slighted? Of course not. They have customers looking the other way.

And lastly, unlike so many costumers, I vote with my wallet.

I dont like the company, im not buying the product. I wont die if i dont play the last mass effect, but ill consider it my EA swan song. I hate those guys ways of doing business.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

Ah! Hot dates are a much better alternative. I approve, sir.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

Yeah, but a date is one-time use as well. It's not like you can tell the person "Well that was great, but I think I'm going to sell you back to GameStop and buy a newer girl."

@thatlameguy
I don't know, your username seems to say otherwise...

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

Whaaa.

I but the game new, take 5 seconds to input the code and never think about it again. And if I want to save money I'll snag it on sale.

The used business is a parasite on the industry and the quicker it dies the better.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly
Profiles on servers aren't mere bits, they're usually massive ammounts of space.

@The Aquacharger

No they're not... that's not true at all unless your definition of "massive" is a few MB. Besides, in most cases they're the same profile that already exists. For example, every EA game hooks into the same EA profile you created for any previous EA game.

@GloryReturnsAgain

Well lookie here. Nothing to really argue with, so just add "whaaa" to your post. Great job.

These industry guys are about to shoot themselves in the foot.

What do you think those traded in games go to buy? NEW GAMES. How hard is it to comprehend that? How different is a game from a movie in the sense that you play it/watch it, then if you want to pass it on, you do. Is is because we feel more sympathy for devs than for movie studios?

Its guys like you - known as, "the dumb consumer" that makes the American public abused again and again by these companies. You guys are too damn dumb to see when you are being shafted. You guys actually WANT to be taken advantage of, because you are the little guy and they are the all important companies.

You should be clapping that i vote with my wallet- the inability to do that will result in the next round of systems being locked down pieces of shit.

I dont hear the COD guys complaining about used game sales....

@GloryReturnsAgain I'm guessing you don't care a lot about your rights as a consumer to sell something you paid for.

@1059 WKYA Radio Mike Lightly

Try over ten years in the industry as a buyer; I promise I've forgotten more about it than you'll ever know.

Used games go to buy new games? Who told you that? Gamestop? Like they did at the GDC a few years ago and everyone in the room with a brain rolled their eyes?

News Flash: If the used games business, including GS, died this instant publishers and developers would line up to urinate on the ashes. They have every right to do what they do but they are not owed a damn thing by the companies that spend millions to make these products.

Like I said - I buy my games new, put in a code if it has one, and never think about it again. I can't think of a single solitary instance when an online pass interfered with my gaming experience - period.

But waaaah, I'm owed something.

@Slight of Ham
How are they gouging customers? They are just trying to get a small return on used games that companies like Gamestop make billions a year off of.

And how is the implementation bad? You buy used and still get every feature the game has minus a side quest or playable characters. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, they could have easily started doing cd keys for console games like PC and basically neuter used game sales all together.

They are just trying to bring more money to themselves rather places like Gamestop.

@Blay Why should the publishers make money off a product that has already been sold? They have no right to dip their hands into the used market because the disc is no longer their property. Argue IP rights and you begin introducing books and movies, and you simply can't argue that because those industries have no such measures in place.

Try running a game store and only sell new product. Once you see how slim the profit margin is, watch how quick you start to sell used. Gamestop isn't some evil entity; they're just popular to hate. The only companies that are even implementing these passes are the major publishers anyway. Does EA need more money from Madden? The only games that have even had these passes are the ones that are guaranteed sellers in the first place.

You don't see Atlus, D3, others using these passes, and believe it or not, people buy their games used too.

@Gamereviewgod
Ok so the disc is your property want a cookie? The publishers are simply rewarding the people who purchase the game new by giving them access to extra content. It is their game and they can choose what comes with the released product aka the "disc". Don't like what comes with the purchase? Then don't buy the game its that simple.

Gamestop isn't evil they are just a for profit company just like these publishers are. Gamestop makes billions and posts huge net profits for simply buying used games and reselling them for a lot more. These publishers who actually make these games are posting slim profits or even net losses. All they are trying to do is take a few cookies out of Gamestops jar and I think that is perfectly fine since they are the ones making and distributing these games rather than just hiring some kids at minimum wage to resell games.

Ok so foreign publishers are doing ok without them... they don't operate the same as US companies do with lucrative corporate bonuses and incentives so they don't money grab. That has always been the case in just about every market not just video games. If you want to boycott their products for that reason go for it and do the same with just about every other large american company you deal with, stick it to the man and let me know how it goes!

@Blay "Don't like what comes with the purchase? Then don't buy the game its that simple."

I don't. The problem is that publishers have begun taking advantage of their customers at ludicrous levels and people blindly support these actions which is beginning to affect everything.

"Gamestop makes billions and posts huge net profits for simply buying used games and reselling them for a lot more. These publishers who actually make these games are posting slim profits or even net losses."

Then clearly the problem isn't Gamestop, it's the business model of the industry as a whole. Don't blame GS because the economy tanked and suddenly people are looking for cheaper entertainment. Blame the publishers who continue to expect more and more from a customer base with only so much money to spend.

"Ok so foreign publishers are doing ok without them... they don't operate the same as US companies do with lucrative corporate bonuses and incentives so they don't money grab. "

I think you hit the problem on the head.

@Gamereviewgod
And look how many studios tanked in recent years because of that economy and by the masses flocking to used games for any way to save money only further hurt the game market because it got to a point where people would trade in a used game for a new used game ect.

Gamestops record profits following the recession is proof. They profited and the developers who made some of the games went under. Its not Gamestops fault or anyone else fault.

Maybe a few of them could have stayed afloat had the Ceos or upper management took an income hit but it never goes down like that and until it is illegal to do so it will continue on. So they come up with things like online pass to get more revenue for these developers. Its the truth that is why it is getting added to more and more titles everyday and is gonna continue to as it bring in more money than it loses.

Online pass is fine right now, it gives an incentive for the new game buyer without butchering the used game buyers experience. And until it crosses that line it will be fine.

@Blay "And look how many studios tanked in recent years because of that economy and by the masses flocking to used games for any way to save money only further hurt the game market because it got to a point where people would trade in a used game for a new used game ect."

If people are flocking to used games -assuming you had ANY proof used games were a source of studio closures, which you don't- then it's a problem with the pricing structure. People will pay what they think something is worth. Clearly, in a dull economy, people don't think a single entertainment product is worth $60. Instead of taking that to heart, companies are employing anti-consumer measures and further pushing customers away.

"Gamestops record profits following the recession is proof."

EA has record setting profits two years in a row. In Q2 of last year, they doubled their previous record. Are used games hurting them too? GameStop and publishers co-exist, not in spite of each other.

"Its the truth that is why it is getting added to more and more titles everyday and is gonna continue to as it bring in more money than it loses."

Of course it's going to make more than it loses because it doesn't cost anything to implement.

"Online pass is fine right now, it gives an incentive for the new game buyer without butchering the used game buyers experience. And until it crosses that line it will be fine. "

It's butchering the future of the industry. You do realize that authentication servers are not forever? What happens when this single player content is no longer accessible? If it was on the disc, it's a non-issue. It's a on a server, so preservation is a nightmare.

And honestly, I don't see any incentive with the mountain of printing/server glitches that have happened with these passes. I have no desire to deal with any of that.

@Gamereviewgod
You're a broken record at this point.

The proof is Gamestop posting higher than ever profits even when the development studios continue to close even when their game wasn't a massive flop. Though that much would have been quite obvious.

Most of the profiting EA made was from the few established franchises sports, music games and the digital and social game sector which the digital/social profits has nothing to do with online pass. And even then they revenue was nothing compared to Gamestops. This also has nothing to do with the pricing whatsoever, if games got cheaper people will still buy the used games because they will also be cheaper. Most consumers will go to any length to save where they can that is how it always is.

Also what does the servers have to do with anything? These aren't game breaking things being included in the online pass. They are optional and if you are trying to argue multiplayer servers being down then welcome to consol gaming because regardless after a certain period of time the multiplayer and dlc servers are taken offline for all games and has nothing to do with online pass.

Once they work out the delivery of the online passes there will be no problems the used game sector will adjust just fine or go away. Either way will bring in more money for the people responsible for getting us these games rather than just making money off reselling them.

@Blay

"The proof is Gamestop posting higher than ever profits even when the development studios continue to close even when their game wasn't a massive flop. Though that much would have been quite obvious."

Correlation does not equal causation. And you're conveniently ignoring the devs that are doing exceedingly well without resorting to online pass practices.