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Kim: Hey Kool Thing, are you going to free us from male, white, corporate oppression?

Chuck D: Yeah!

Please, please, please American commenters, understand that the UK has a different concept of what constitutes free speech and that such plurality of ideas is a consequence of our democratic choice.

We have free speech. We are not oppressed. Our definition of free speech just differs from yours. The BBFC has the support and confidence of the public (as many comments on here from Britons are a testimony to).

Only in the US could you regard porn and torture as free speech. That's not speech, it's tourettic babbling. Speech has purpose and intent. When babbling on about your consitution you seem to forget that it's based on the rights enshrined in the Magna Carta and the philosophies of the British Enlightenment. We have free speech, we just understand that free speech and society must engage in a bit of give and take on occasion.

Make no bones about this, the BBFC would easily have passed this game as an 18 if they had felt there were any artistically or morally redeeming qualities to it. For instance, if it undermined the violent ideas it was portraying (could be why they let the first game pass).

What kind of wierdo gets their kicks playing this kind of game?

Oh Will, look up Godwin's law.

Oh come off it, the US film censors cut parts of the bloody Southpark film, and the puppet sex scene in Team America. Did they pass The Idiots uncut for public viewing? Or 9 Songs?

The functioning of the film rating system in the US means that the section of the market that can watch particular films uncut is dramatically curtailed when compared to European countries (including the UK). It's just these cuts always revolve around sex, nudity, religion, homosexuality and language. Violence doesn't seem to be an issue in the US.

I've only brought this up because the very first comment on this thread decides to compare the BBFC to the Nazi party based on a totally moronic view of absolute free speech. The BBFC are lenient and anti-censorship in the vast majority of cases and a comparison to the US shows this. Oh, and as someone commented above, you're quite right, they should use the same grounds when looking at the torture porn that passes for horror movies these days.

The BBFC do their job very, very well and are not the puritanical, religious zealots that run the US censor. In general, they pass almost everything and work hard with the creative forces behind films and games to ensure that they can be released.

I think the BBFC have done a wonderful job here. Censorship and free speech are not mutually exclusive, despite what some naive morons on the internet think.

There is a core problem, and it's common to most large companies. We like companies to make good quality products that we want to buy. We don't like companies that attempt to make money by controlling the market, rather than making quality products.

This is what happens when Sony introduce propriety formats and use the success of the Playstation brand to leverage those formats. It's also what happens when Nintendo forced third-party developers into restrictive licensing agreements, and it's the model upon which the success of Windows is predicated.

We tend to forgive this kind of 'market control' behaviour when we view the quality of the product, it's desirability and cost in a positive light. This is why many people don't begrudge Apple the success of the iPod (despite the propriety formats and DRM), or MS the success of the 360 (which is pretty much succeeding on the strength of the product alone - market control comes next gen).

The price of the PS3, the general quality of the product compared to other alternatives, the stock shortages and the lack of decent games mean we are all focussing on the market control tactics Sony are using to try and succeed.

That's why we don't like Sony at the moment. In five years time we'll hate MS again!

@ Bill,

1. So now we're looking at effective market size rather than population. Again, that makes Japan important (since gaming has a wider demographic there). Effective market size is pretty similar across all markets. Look at the success of Nintendogs and you'll see that the disparity in numbers of units shifted across markets is not indicative of the difference in population between those markets.

2. Winning Eleven is a huge franchise. Look at the huge sales for the last PS2 version in Japan (and don't even get started on its popularity in the UK). I believe, though I could be wrong, that was the last time the DS was knocked off number 1 in the hardware charts.

3. I don't care what GAF say are the big games. If they say different games then that just goes to show there's still a lot coming out for the system.

4. You talk about drop off as if there's been a temporary peak before a massive fall in sales back to some low level, like if Twilight Princess temporarily increased Gamecube sales. Yes DS sales are particularly high at the moment (the Mario and FF3 effects), but they've been continually high all year. 5 million combined DS and DSlite sales in 2006, compared to 1.3 million PSPs is a huge difference. DSlite sales have been going from 44K with stock shortages to 170K a week. That's absolutely astounding, especially for a handheld.

It is a successful handheld with a wide variety of games. It is reaching a wide variety of gamers, well beyond your crude Nintendork stereotypes. For some reason you seem to be wiling it to fail. It's just not going to happen.

Hmm Bill,

In that case, what about Europe with its population of 728 million. Lot more of us and we don't seem to be considered an important gaming market (btw Europe is pretty much a Sony only zone, MS don't do too well here either).

As for sales, again, where's the "fall". That's a pretty prejorative word, suggesting some kind of failure. The DS is anything but a failure. Even a massive drop in sales over the next couple of weeks will still keep it in first place.

You've also gone from saying "FF3 is propping it up" to "wont take a major fall because black DS comes out next week". I suppose after that we'll have, the DS Winning Eleven, LoZ Phantom Hourglass, then the next game, then the next game/DS colour/bundle pack/continued success of training franchise games. Or I suppose you could just say the DS continues to sell well because it's a good console with great games selling something different to new and existing markets. Just a thought!

@ Bill,

128 million is closer to half as many people as in the US, not a third. Also, the overall number of sales in Japan ranks it as a highly important market (i.e. gaming is more mainstream than in the US).

Oh and Japan is very important on another side: many high selling third party developers are Japanese. Success for a console in Japan means support from these third parties.

And it's absolutely laughable for you to talk about the DS taking a "major fall" without "FF3 propping it up", when the console has been leagues ahead of all other hardware for months on end. So, will it dip from selling over 5 times more than its nearest competitor to only selling 3 times more? Are the other 9 DS games in the top ten also "propping it up"?

My god what a myopic view you have on this chart!!!

PS: The aging Japanese population is why Nintendo has targeted the console at more than just an 18-24 male demographic. Those oldies love to train their brain (see also success of English Training, Cooking Navi etc).

You'd think a country like the USA, made up, as it is, of 50 states (and 1 district) tied together in a union under a single name would understand the concept of the Unitd Kingdom, since it's pretty much the same thing, except with only 4 states.

Confusion between what constitutes the UK, Great Britain or the British Isles I can understand. Just calling Britain England is pure ignorance!

Oh and, to be completely on topic, the BBFC does a wonderful job and, since it tends to include people with an arts background, sees its job as avoiding the need to censor (i.e. cut, change or ban). Thankfully the UK also has sensible shops that can stock 18 certificates without thinking they're bringing down society. Now all we need to work on is the Tabloid press!