Hunnter

Damn comment system is a pain in the ass, needs more reply buttons on peoples posts, and no parent-post-chopping. No wonder i never posted for so long.

ANYWAY lol.
@Daniel Clausen
Ah, i kinda worded that a bit badly.
It would be a lot slower to do visual gestures (such as ducking) compared to pressing buttons on a controller.
Reason the wand idea wins over visual gestures is the buttons.
A regular controller isn't really built to work with visual motion systems. (and neither are most humans at that ;) )

As for the pointing compared to controllers, it really will come down to how small the user input is. But i don't think it would be that noticeable. If Wiimote is anything to go by, it shouldn't be a problem.
If everyone is going to be using the same controller (well, let's imagine it), the input lag would more-or-less be the same. Those who are quicker to move the pointer to the head wins :)

Also, you reminded me of an awesome idea that i had, but probably wouldn't happen.
It was a controller add-on, rather than full blown controller.

So instead of having to use a (probably) limited controller, it slots into the top section, which could be tracked via a camera.
So now you can do those very quick aim movements while holding the controller too, while left stick could be used for something else... hmm... just what though.

>On another note I haven't heard anyone talk about using Natal in combination with a 360 controller. What if you had Halo and used the buttons but then could use Natal for Melee and reloading. Just a thought.

Because it is slower.
I don't think i need to say anything else, actually, but i will.

Anything "high-speed" related will just not work with motion controls + controller.
It will just complicate things more than aid them.
True, you can duck in an FPS, but that will still be slower than pressing a button.
Leaning around corners? Still slower.
Speed is the most important thing to an FPS game. (any worthy FPS game)

A fully custom motion controller, or 2 controllers, are much better in this case.
A dedicated motion controller in an FPS would make it much quicker to point at people, and will also have more realistic aiming.
If only Microsoft went this route. They already had the research done.

@RedSonRising
You are "positive", that is an opinion.
Fact is, just detecting visual stimulus is going to limit the system.

Also, seriously, the whole "leaning" around corners?

Natal isn't anything special, i have seen all this before with Eyetoy.
What, you thought the painting thing was SUPER AWESOME?
Breakout with your body was nice, but Eyetoy could have easily done it too.
The only thing Eyetoy hasn't done in comparison to Natal was the menu interactions, that is it.

Also i find the fact that you think that menu interaction with a camera is innovative.
Protip my little buddy, PCs have been doing this for years.

But if there is one thing i will agree with you on, it is that Sony really didn't put enough resources behind Eyetoy.

This is very very true.

I would love if Microsoft did add in some sort of controller, to hell with anyone if they label them copycats. (which is funny since they made a wand years before they even got into consoles)

Natal suffers the same problems Eyetoy did, no tactile feedback.
Yes, it might be able to track fingers, but how will it track through your hand if you have it shaped like a gun? The camera base isn't THAT large, and i doubt Microsoft have the technology to bend space.
Then there is the problem of determining what position your fingers would need to be in to fire, and will probably result in awkward and tiring play.
Most people can barely move their fingers fast in a trigger-style movement, or play a piano / keyboard fast because their fingers aren't used to moving often.
Go, try it now, make a gun shape with your hand and rest your 2nd finger on the invisible trigger and close your 2nd finger in to your hand to fire.
If you feel any pain in your 2 fingers when you close the 2nd to "fire", welcome to the majority of people. (not only that, most peoples index finger will be pulled in as you "fire", killing accuracy)

Without tactile feedback, controls are going to be extremely limited.

lol @ all the fanboys getting pissed off.

Facts:

PS3 wand idea was prototyped way back years ago, without the controller part that is (it was posted on here several days ago for crying out loud)
It was only recently they got around to building it, since PS Eye is stagnating.
It does some simple (read:complex) visual tracking to figure out the distance to the controller, and the usual old gyros to detect tilts, etc. (there IS no other way to do it without over-complicated visual tracking systems and stereoscopic vision)

Microsoft's Natal is pretty much just what Eyetoy was, but with improved accuracy.
I don't see the big deal about people going crazy over it, besides that it can be used to control the interface. (WOW, _amazing_)
If Sony added that in way back on PS2, people would have probably not cared at all.
While Eyetoy was (and Natal is) great, it still suffers from the simple fact that there was no tactile feedback, which severely limits interaction.

Microsoft still beat both Nintendo AND Sony to the "wand" thing by many many years, but never used it. (not for consoles)
Oh how pissed the developers must be to see Nintendo succeed with it.

Nintendo are ripping you off with a buckled controller, and the fix to said buckled controller.
I'll probably still get it because it will make gaming much better.

Opinion:
I do prefer PS3 wand, it takes the great parts of a camera and combines it with some simple visual tracking.

JESUS, some of you guys are clueless.
Buy a new sarcasm detector, you sorely need one.
How can you seriously not see that it was sarcasm?

Also, nice little piece of hardware.
Saves damaging the SNES any more.
Combined with a USB adaptor for the controller and we are good to go.

Ah yes, that's the one!
I never even thought to check through their videos to see if there was any more on it.
Noticed the little character on the ball demo :)

Now that i think about it, i need to find my Eyetoy... it's somewhere in this room..

YES, someone else remembers.
It was a similar demo to the one i posted down the page a bit

They just never went ahead with their idea because they never thought it would have worked. But after the success of the Wiimote, why not?
It isn't copying, since both had very similar ideas without either of them being released to the public.

Plus, Microsoft still beat them both, but they also never really went ahead with their idea.

Just to make all you "anti-Sony nintendo ftw" people cry a little.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpNdkm9s8AY
Protip: Look at the date.
That wasn't the first demo of this, the very very first tech demo of Eyetoy showed a much simpler method of this.
The ball was just a ball though, not a rod on the end.
It could be used to place a character on the ball.

But yes, it was only recently that they decided to go to this due to the success of Wiimote and them not really doing much with PS Eye anyway. (seriously, where is that Tank game where you could scan your tank in?)
Saying they are copying is quite a laugh though.
See, the thing about the Wiimote, the Wiimote was terribly buckled from the start simple because it depended on being pointed at the sensor-bar. (for point-tracking at least)
This doesn't need to be pointed which automatically makes it more precise and easier to use.

lol, totally Dave!

And some brought up a good point about the "its not meant to be thrown around" when saying the Nintendo Ads show EXACTLY THAT!
They didn't think of any realistic scenarios when designing that strap, or the back of the controller as Zagga20 said.

YOU might be fine, YOU might not think its right to swing it, but some people DO think its right, so it goes back to Nintendos controller design not being tested enough.
(and the major flaw with the back being smooth, a little rubber padding would have saved many TVs and other items. RIP)

They screwed up, end of story.