Saerain

@ApathyCurve How on Earth is that a rebuttal to the point that correlation is not causation?

@belgeode Dial-up in 2003? My sympathies...

@Ref Minor CCP axing a CSM would undermine the point of the CSM program.

But it would be a good time to introduce an impeachment process.

Shadowbane is what immediately comes to mind, but of course, it's gone now.

Still, Shadowbane is the perfect example of a game I would have played much more committedly, had its community been more mature.

EVE's community... while I think its average maturity has lowered over time as the playerbase has grown, the foundation of mature and intelligent people is still there and easy to find. Shadowbane was another story. The worst type of EVE player was the average type of Shadowbane player.

@PhelimReagh Wait, elected representatives are the cream of the crop?

Mind blown.

@Yukon Sam I'm not sure I understand what ‘leeches’ you're referring to.

@Nenene It's also not ‘targeted toward females’. It's more accurate to say it's targeted at appealing not only to males. They just want, as many other developers have said, to make some strides toward balancing the male-female ratio of the player base, and the customization features are just a facet of that.

@Brendan Drain The 6-8 years I mentioned include pre-production and alpha stages.

@Nenene It's not even an accurate summary of what Chris actually said in the presentation. I recommend watching the video on YouTube yourself. There isn't ‘a focus on’ fashion at all.

So, I guess my answer is two: EverQuest and EVE. Unless you count commitment to a beta, in which case four: EverQuest, EVE, Vanguard, and The Old Republic.