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Prestizi

Member since: Jul 6th, 2010

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Mortal Kombat creator says complexity of fighting games hurts sales

Jul 6th 2010 10:26PM (Joystiq)
@doctorrobert
Play someone who is any good at fighters, and chances are they can beat you using only a single crummy attack + strategy. Give them a zoning projectile on top of that and you're toast. The inputs are a very small barrier of entry in the long run. You get used to them in one game, and it never bothers you in any other game ever again ( except in some particularly strict games ). And its not as hard as people make it out to be ( i have terribly clumsy hands and im doing fine enough ). For most people, there isn't a need to learn the strongest, longest, most ridiculous combos. A few simple and short ones combined with effective strategy will be enough to defeat most beginner-intermediate players. And complaining that its too hard to beat advanced players without putting in any effort or practice is just laughable.

Mortal Kombat creator says complexity of fighting games hurts sales

Jul 6th 2010 10:17PM (Joystiq)
@Mehbah

Just as an example, BlazBlue doesn't have enough buttons to not use complex inputs
typical character:
A,B,C,D four buttons ( D is a very special button for most characters )
6a,6b,6c 3 forward attacks
2a,2b,2c 3 down attacks
possible 1 or 2 back attacks ( back is also block so can't overload it too much )
jumping a,b,c 3 typical jumping attacks
jumping 2a,2b,2c, 1 to 3 downwards jumping attacks ( typically only 1 or 2 )
quarterforward A,B,C,D 4 special attacks that vary slightly in a subtle but meaningful way
quarterback A,B,C,D 4 special attacks that vary slightly in a subtle but meaningful way
22a,22b,22c,22d down down attacks, usually only 1 to 2 of these
DP input ( 623, aka forward,down,diagonallydownforward) A,B,C,D
4 special attacks that vary slightly in a subtle but meaningful way
halfcircleforward A,B,C,D some have it some dont, 1 to 4 moves
halfcirclebackward A,B,C,D some have it, some don't, 1 to 4 moves
super inputs, most characters typically have 1-4 supers
astral finish input, usually pointless but its still a move that has to be fit
barrier / throw / burst / taunt
Good luck fitting those into only single direction inputs without sacrificing gameplay ability. Some characters have more than what i listed. And the attacks are different enough to justify different inputs ( different distances or angles on a projectile, claiming you can change input length or input force as an input overloading method is really dumb since it sacrifices either speed or flexibility [ or in the case of input force is in some ways much harder to deal with than a simple input combination ] )

Mortal Kombat creator says complexity of fighting games hurts sales

Jul 6th 2010 9:59PM (Joystiq)
@Prestizi

Example of a higher level game, in which there really isn't much combo stringing ( at least the Tager ). Its all in careful movements, good blocking, timing, and reading ( you still need the basic level of ability to input the special attacks ).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQD27iYVGm0&feature=PlayList&p=7E198E90A885B400&playnext_from=PL

Mortal Kombat creator says complexity of fighting games hurts sales

Jul 6th 2010 9:54PM (Joystiq)
@Prestizi
As for the argument for the inputs, the players who stick to the game tend to get good enough at the inputs that at least inputting the simpler stuff becomes trivial ( me ). Like i said before, there are players who are terrible at the strategic portion, but have magic hands that can input the most complex inputs. You can liken them to playing a rhythm game with a preset list of buttons, once they get their hit in, they can string together painfully difficult combinations for massive damage, ones i could never do. But thats why you don't give them that opportunity. And then you ask, what about the people who have strategy and dexterity. Well there you go, obviously some people are overall just better or more talented or have put in more practice. This extra layer of difficulty adds more depth and widens the gap between a skilled player and a less skilled player. Again, at the top levels of tournament gameplay inputs are a trivial aspect and it all comes down to strategy and reading.

Mortal Kombat creator says complexity of fighting games hurts sales

Jul 6th 2010 9:49PM (Joystiq)
@HeroicPrinny / General

There are many aspects to 2d fighters, and for the specific genre it has become, it doesn't make sense to say that they are meant to be played in one way or another. There are players that are terrible at inputs but incredible at strategy, as well as players that are terrible at strategy and reading opponents and instead rely on getting their one hit in to get their chance at doing a ridiculously difficult combo.
The various inputs to use a character's full set of attacks is certainly a barrier of entry to beginners, but to an intermediate player there is little concern over the basic inputs ( it just isn't that hard at all once you get used to it ). Even a player that can't handle complex inputs can still win through skilled play in strategy / reading / zoning / spacing, there is a lot to fighters than just input combos. Typically new players who get annihilated are actually getting creamed due to their lack of skill in these other areas, making it ridiculously easy to get clean hits in, and thus damaging combos.
I personally am pretty terrible at inputs compared to my peers, and yet i tend to win against most people i know. This is all through good movements/blocking/strategy/reading/spacing/zoning, along with some short and easy combos. If your opponent can defeat you in 4 clean hits, and you require 8 clean hits, you're still fine if you're going to be hitting him 3x as much as he hits you.
And in the long run, input difficulty is nearly irrelevant. Tournament level players are all going to be inputting the most difficult stuff constantly and consistently, and at that point the only thing that matters is your strategy / etc.

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