Rowan Kaiser

@JustinCase I don't think I actually need to say that I didn't say something in an article that I didn't say it in.

I'm giving historical background about a shift away from a dominant combat form. This includes a tremendously important game that helped open the door to different forms of combat, specifically, real-time combat and real-time/turn-based hybrids, and I prefer that added variety to the menu-based combat it replaced.

But that's not the same as saying turn-based combat is bad, and it takes poor reading comprehension, especially when I praise turn-based games like Wizardry 8, to believe I said that.

@JustinCase - Your "specific" example indicates that you didn't actually read the piece, you know. I never said "fast pace means more depth". I said that the lack of tactical movement in menu-based games meant potentially less depth.

Keeping it simple: I didn't say turn-based combat is bad. I said that menu-based combat has inherent weaknesses.

@Psychonaut - First of all, you're misreading my last line. Obviously the Infinity Engine allows orders while paused. I said "Games like Dungeon Master...." which has a different engine.

As for the rest, you're right, if a little too detailed. My phrasing was a little awkward, I wasn't trying to say that IE games were turn-based not real-time, I was trying to say that they weren't straightforward real-time games with pause. They're a hybrid system.

@Psychonaut Well, VATS obviously fits under the "real-time with pause" but Infinity doesn't. It uses turns and AD&D rules which are meant for turn-based combat, but does them in real-time. You can even choose to auto-pause after each "turn". Games like Dungeon Master aren't even that. They're real-time with clear demarcations of "turns", and no orders-while-paused.

@MMXI Interesting, though not necessarily the only way that it's been used - Wikipedia has the unfortunate tendency of doing that to terminology. I am trying to remember if there is another term for the combination real-time/turn-based combat that I might possibly have conflated it with, and nothing's coming up. I think it was a term in broader use in the past that may have been given more specificity in certain classification systems.

@Infinitron Yes, the number of Gold Box, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft games I've played is irrelevant. Instead I hate the "majesty" of AD&D 2nd edition.

Pull the other one, it's got bells on....

@ShadowXIII If it paints anything in a negative light, it's old-fashioned menu-based combat games. And I'm okay with that. I find that many of those games are little more than constant combat slogs. But you talk about X-COM as the definition of a great combat system, and I love X-COM. I mentioned tactical combat games in neutral terminology at worst. I mention Wizardry 8, a turn-based menu-combat game with a twist as my ideal form for Wasteland 2. Two weeks ago, I wrote an entire column on how much I love the original Fallout and how important it was.

I simply don't see any way to say "this writer hates turn-based combat" based on an actual reading of the column. If you're paranoid about an overall hatred of turn-based games, that's fine. But that's not the case with me. This column was saying that the original Wasteland had a style of combat that's fallen out of favor, for what I think are largely good reasons. That's all.

@ShadowXIII Your rant would be more effective if I'd ever said I didn't like turn-based games.

@(Unverified) Wizardry 8 was kind of like Radiant Historia in reverse. Instead of shifting the enemies around, you shifted your characters around. It had a little hub, a circle of five parts (center-front-back-left-right) that you put your party members in, and they could attack enemies based on physical location, and could be shifted according to where the enemies were coming from.

@bussinrounds I actually concur on this - I can't stand the Infinity Engine combat. Well, I can stand it, but barely. I think BioWare eventually got that style right with Dragon Age: Origins.