roshacla

Rowan: after reading some of your responses (of course after writing my post. You should verify your account!) I think I got a bit of the wrong impression about what you were trying to say. Then again, when you say "Part of the reason menu-based combat is dead is that, well, it's not very good" you are going to annoy some people. I personally think you are putting this style of combat in too confined of a box. Final Fantasy X (which I didn't like, but certainly has its proponents) has what is for all intents and purposes a pure menu-driven combat system. Look past all the bells and whistles and what do you have? Menu based actions with graphical representations that actually don't mechanically matter at all (save for that the game would be incredibly boring without them). Of course old school menu and text based combat is gone. It has been replaced by menu and animation based combat which is for all intents and purposes the exact same thing.

I guess what I am confused about is your disdainful comments about this style when it still powers some of the most popular games in the genre. The added visual flare does not change that this is all just menu items and stat crunching.

I'm sorry, but your opinion of turn based combat is just wrong. Maybe it isn't your thing, but the most rewarding combat engine I ever experienced was Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter's. That was pure turn based with positioning added in for more strategic depth and it worked beautifully. Outside of flashy graphics and a less abstract depiction of range and combat, there isn't much mechanically different from these old school menu RPG's. The presentation is worlds better, but the guts are the same.

I would take Etrian Odyssey's combat over any modern western RPG's. In fact, I would say combat is about the only thing JRPG's are getting right these days. As long as they give the combat skills some strategic depth and the character classes a lot of variety, developers can still make very inspiring menu based combat systems. Unfortunately, Japanese developers tend to ruin their engines with stupid systems (tri-ace) and bury them in games with horrific storylines and anime-cliche artwork (everyone else). In contrast western games tend to actually not make you cringe during the cutscenes. All this is why I don't even bother with RPG's anymore.

It should also be noted that the most popular series in the world uses a vastly simplified version of menu combat: Pokemon.

@ Spunky

Who said I was telling anyone what to feel or think? I am expressing disdain just like others are expressing joy and if there is nothing wrong with one then there is nothing wrong with the other. Why should I "mind my business"? I think Quantic Dream sucks, and I will say it if I feel like it. If people who didn't like things never said anything, then the world would probably end up just how you described it. It would also be incredibly boring.

And I agree with all the other things you said were terrible. But at least those are games. Programming a semi-open world is a thousand times more difficult then what these clowns do.

@SamE Why shouldn't I complain? I have very strong negative feelings about this studio's titles and am frequently baffled at how impressed people are with their offerings. Barely interactive + rejected TV movie script does not equal genius, no matter how many polygons are on screen. Sorry if you can't handle criticism of your tea.

@Mecha No. I got that from playing most of Indigo Prophecy and about 2 hours of Heavy Rain. Same game really. I doubt these guys will change anything about their game making philosophy seeing as how they seem to think it is brilliant.

Oh boy! Another wannabe movie with a terrible plot and "deep" characters is on its way! I can't wait to perform quicktime events! Actual gameplay is overrated.

There is not one iota of writing or design talent at this studio. I would actually refer to all of their games as extended tech demos.

Oh boy! Another wannabe movie with a terrible plot and "deep" characters is on its way! I can't wait to perform quicktime! Actual gameplay is overrated.

There is not one iota of writing or design talent at this studio. I would actually refer to all of their games as extended tech demos.

Someone above related this to investing in a project and how it isn't begging because you are an "investor". Well, if I was told that if I invested in a project I would receive some kind of "reward" or discount rather then a portion of the profits, I would walk away, just as any sane investor would. EA doesn't invest resources into Bioware so it can make games that they like. They invest that money to make a profit. Kickstarter is a fun idea, but ultimately doesn't make any sense unless the project is released for free. In that scenario, your donation would be how much you paid for it. I'm fine with that.

My heart honestly dropped a bit when I saw the title of this post. I have been designing a JRPG style battle system based around this exact idea. The similarities of running plays with a team and orchestrating a strategy with a party of different characters with different roles is quite striking. I've just begun coding it for my advanced software project at school, so hopefully this idea pays dividends. I hope no one else has beaten me to the punch :P

Anyway, JRPG's were my absolute favorite genre, but have slowly fallen down my list of preferences. This is because they have become all flash and fan service with no substance. Outside of the rare gems like Valkyrie Profile (the first one only) or Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, everything else has been a rather brutal let down. My problem with JRPG's is that rather then change the mold, they have actually regressed in terms of gameplay.

The strategy found in games like FF4 is much greater then in any modern game. Why? It is difficult and you have a large party with lots of options. Modern Japanese role playing games for some reason seem to think shrinking your party to 3 and shoehorning in some kind of crazy system (complete with an acronym for its ridiculous name) is some kind of advancement. How does reducing my options and then adding a bunch of special effects any kind of improvement?

I like SRPG's alot, but that is a whole different ballgame. They are more about grid based combat with semi-generic units then regular RPGs. The JRPG is a stagnant and dieing format, and by abandoning things like leveling up, forging, constant equipment upgrades, grinding, and a lack of defensive actions (Hey! I'm gonna stand here while I'm hit by a meteor!) the combat from these games could move forward. Nevermind the narrative problems. That is an entirely different issue...

P.S. I think it is pretty funny how negative most people's response to this article is. You can't overlook the games mechanics (which is what this article is about) just because you like one's aesthetic and not the others.