pete

Wonder Cheese: Obviously I wasn't talking about the game directly there - I was talking about the manner of arguing against the inclusion of any "underage sexuality." I have no agenda to speak of, but I'm flattered you think I might be blurring some line to advance one.

My original stance was (and remains), let's get more details before we grab our pitchforks and burn down the Ishikawa Manor. I just watched the trailer, and it struck me as far more "weird" than "erotic." Perhaps the sexual element is more in the eyes of the beholder than anything else.

Benjamin, you said: "We're talking about underage sexuality, whether it's blatant or subtle, explicit or not, being exploited for entertainment."

I think this is a deceptively simple way of putting an inherently difficult, complicated question. A video game is meant to entertain, no doubt. But so is a documentary, and a book, dinner, and so on. All these things, of course, serve multiple purposes (also to challenge, to edify, to educate, etc.). That said, what we're really talking about is "What is the acceptable limit when it comes to displaying underage sexuality?" - a far tougher question.

Again, it's tough to draw that line - I'm 23, and I still remember (quite vividly) my high school years. When I look at a high schooler now, I really just see a little girl (heck, college freshman seem like infants to me). But back when I was in HS and later in college, it was a whole different story. Let's just say that the capacity for genuine human sexuality begins at a very young age.

I don't think there's anything wrong with exploring that question; I do think there's something wrong with exploiting it - which I don't think is happenning here. I think this is simply one element of the game (of which we know very little).

At the end of the day, of course, vote with your dollars. Boycott it to send a message.

You folks are talking from a perspective of moral absolutism that just isn't viable in the long run. The American view of sexuality isn't necessarily the right one; the state "age of consent" varies considerably within the U.S. and abroad - is it wrong if we're talking about 16 year-old girls? how about 17? 18? There's really no magic line that suddenly makes it proper or acceptable. Which is why 1) we need to know the content before we make judgments; and 2) this is an incredibly ambiguous & murky area - you must concede as much if you wish to be taken seriously in this debate.

and some screen caps for you all:

http://playstation2.gaming-universe.de/screens/ruleofrosescan1.jpg http://playstation2.gaming-universe.de/screens/ruleofrosescan2.jpg

benjamin: Right - I just think that this debate is really much too abstract without some actual facts. Ishikawa's conception of "somewhat erotic" and what he defines as "when girls play" may be tame by our standards (though this isn't likely, one way or the other). My point is, it's too early to be having this debate, esp. given how murky the details are.

Most people would agree that overt sexuality being displayed by young girls in a video game (i.e., something obscene) is wrong. Suggestive eroticism is, perhaps, less wrong, but still wrong and is precisely the kind of content that pedophiles and their ilk salivate over - no need to put it in a highly interactive GAME to sate their twisted needs. Very slightly suggestive eroticism (i.e., nothing even close to overt) takes us into a different realm, a more intellectual one which, I think is fine. It's definitely a very fine balance...

Does anyone actually know what the "erotic depictions" are? I mean, is it two girls frolicking in a field in schoolgirl outfits (shouldn't be "suggestive," but the perverted mind can see it soo) or two girls kissing (inherently suggestive, if not explicit). I think we might be jumping the gun here.

Weak that us NYers get the shaft again.

*cries*

NYC= Manhattan (to us born-and-bread city folk).

Brooklyn is Brooklyn; Bronx is the Bronx; and so on. Hate to be a geo-snob, but that's just the way it is.

Jersey is...(*cringes*) - well, let's not bring that up.

Obviously no Walmarts or Targets in NYC, but has anyone had success in the boroughs or Long Island or even (*shudder*) Jersey?

yeah uhhh is it to early to call the next-gen wars in MSFT's favor?