LySop

What I am saying is, "I don't mind paying for that which I choose to pay for." If they slapped an Xbox 360 port of the Atari 2600 (no so) Classic E.T. on the UT3 disk and offered if for sale, it wouldn't bother me. I just wouldn't buy it. Remember, nobody is forcing you to buy anything. If I knew it was a port of ET and I wanted to pay 60 bucks, well then, I made that decision.

Obviously, that is a rediculous example but it illustrates the point. When I bought my 360 I wasn't thinking to myself, "I can't wait to get my hands on those mods." I have no expectation of mods. If MS doesn't allow it, I will make my decision to buy or not buy UT3, knowing that.

Your point is well taken about glitches getting through the cert process. This only strengthens my reservations about mods.

You and Grant seem to be under the impression that I am against mods. Not the case. All I am saying is I can understand MS's reservations about opening up the systemm. And it is their decision. I am not entitled to anything that isn't bargained for. You like the PS3 and PSN. That is great. I am glad you made a decision that you are happy with. I hope MS opens the system in safe way. That probably means some restrictions. That's fine. It might mean paying for mods. If it does, I will choose to buy or not buy. I chose to buy map packs for Gears, COD2 and GRAW. I didn't complain. I didn't buy other expansions. MS didn't complain.

BTW, look at the Forge for Halo 3. I only played H3 briefly until I got hooked on COD4. But of all the people who have H3, I have yet to hear of a Forge variant that I have to have and they are all free. I know Forge is more limited than a true mod. I just think everyone is expecting an explosion of Counterstrikes. I just dont think it is going to happen.

LySop

@Granted

I am not "pretending" anything. I don't even know what you mean by that.

You assume you are getting "full value" out of the game. I don't assume anything. I know that I am getting exactly what is advertised to be included with the game. If additional content becomes available, I have the option to purchase it. Even if the content is released on the marketplace the day after the game is release store shelves, so what. When I plunk down 59.99 plus tax, I have made a decision that the contents of the disk are worth my 59.99. I also know that I can wait and get it cheaper (and sometimes with more content, i.e. Oblivion GOTY Edition) if I wait. That is a decision I make.

Don't get me wrong. I would love it if there was some system of user created and shared mods for UT3 on the 360. I like free stuff too. All I am saying is that it is not a make or break thing for me. I don't remember a whole lot of cool stuff coming out of the Far Cry map editor on 360. Most of the stuff is going to be crap. If the few good ones go through MS Cert before hitting the marketplace, I don't mind spending a few MS points for their time to certify and make sure it doesn't brick my system. It is a purchasing decision like I have illustrated above.

Again, I like free and would like free mods that I know weren't going to brick my system and if they did my warranty would still be good. However, if I REALLY cared about mods, I would be PC gamer. Its all about opportunity costs.

LySop

I think the comment: "blacklist mods that do bad things." is the reason MS is hesitant to get on board with this concept. We all know that an "open system" is more versatile to the user. However, with the versatility comes both good and bad. Does the mod that "does bad things" have to do bad things before it is dermined that bad things can happen? If so, I don't want to be the guinea(sp?) pig.

I am not a modder and I don't have a PS3. Therefore, I don't know how open the PS3 is or what type of low level stuff the mods can do. I wouldn't want to subject my console to erased games saves, stolen information or bricking.

Let's face it, what percent of the mods are worth playing. Sure, some really cool mods have come from the modding community. Those are the ones we hear about. What about the other 99%?

I imagine, MS is in the "wait and see" mode. If the modding is embraced by the community and produces some quality stuff and the users want it I am sure MS will implement some access either by the user or the quality stuff will be certified and offered, maybe for a price. If the mod is worth it, people will buy it. If it isn't worth a few MS points, then I have to ask myself if I really want it at all.

LySop

I can't figure this out. Obviously, the dev doesn't want to put the time (read:money) into implementing this functionality because they don't expect to recoop the cost. It has nothing to do with lazy. If there is money in it, they do it. However, PS3 seems to be stuck in this nasty of cycle: Devs won't put out a quality multi plat product because small install base, however, people won't buy PS3 b/c lower quality title.

I have 360, Wii, PS1, PS2, DS, PSP. Obviously, I like to have all the systems, however, I don't have a PS3 because of stuff like this. Somebody has to take a leap of faith: either devs or consumers. Sony seems to think it should be the consumer (Ken K.: "People will get a second job to afford the PS3"). Not this consumer. Every other system had launch line-ups and dev support through the "lean years" until it took off. What is so different about the PS3? Is Sony not putting up the money that others have? Is it THAT hard to develop for? Is Sony failing to put out quality dev kits?

This can't be surprise to Sony. Why didn't Sony write the check? I know that is an over simplification, however, Sony can't let this stuff keep happening (VF5, Madden, 2K football, this, etc.).

I don't hate the PS3. I want to want the PS3. I just wonder when (or if) the PS3 is going to make me want it.

Just my thoughts.

LySop

The thing about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is that it afflicts fetuses, i.e. mom drinking while she's preggy. Hint: It's in the name. That picture is just good ol' fashion under-age drinking (really under-age).

The difference is: the fetus has no choice, these two are obviously choosing their path of unemployment, liver problems, failed relationships, etc.

Brutes

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The $50,000.00 figure is simply for jurisdiction. I am an attorney. Every time I file a suit I have to claim that the damages exceed $25,000.00 to get the case into circuit court rather than associate circuit. Apparently for that jurisdiction the cut-off is $50,000.00. I can assure you that MS and Wal-Mart will claim the damages exceed $75,000.00. I know that sounds odd. But, They will want to get into Federal Court. To do that the parties must be from seperate states and the damages must exceed $75,000.00.

Trust me, the plaintiffs are seeking more than 50K.