Sony's appeal denied; fate of dualshock uncertain [Update 1]

hahaha nintendo's love hotels. while that may sound like a place to find a prostitute to the uneducated, "love hotels" were actually used primarily by japanese youth to have a safe clean environment in which to have sexual relations. nintendo tried to get into this market for only a few years (i believe in the late 40's early 50's?) because during this time, most japanese youth still lived with their dinosaur sex-hating parents...
as for mafia involvement... it wouldnt surprise me :)

oh and anticrawl, my brotha, i didnt make myself clear at all... i'm such a stoner... i just meant not to exaggerate the sony/playstation thing... nintendo didnt stab anyone in the back, it was just yamauchi's stupid ass cancelling the contract with sony because he's an ass hole. i guess the contract outlined that sony would receive 25% of all profits from sales of the "SNES-CD" (i thought it was actually called the nintendo playstation, but i might be wrong) and Yamauchi for some reason thought this was unfair. what a moron. anyways, yeah... so thats what i meant... and then i started going off about how sony ruined videogames... i'm just a scatterbrained drug-addict. sorry bro.

Well Hiro Protagonist, reality is harsh, but I was just trying to get a point across. I think his comment on Gunpei Yokoi was meant to be a joke, because everyone who knows that name should know how he died or maybe he meant they killed him figuratively(as in the way they treated him after the mistakes he made at Nintendo, but then again that's just how Japanese are. Different culture.)

But haha, Nintendo has had one interesting history. They are one odd company that's for sure. From playing cards to love hotels where you pay by the hour to kids toys/games and working with organized crime syndicates.

"In heaven's hands" indeed,
Anticrawl

Haha well that's fine tactics, I know you weren't trying to flame me. And yeah, the love hotel was a great idea. Just to bad for them it ended in failure. Those kids back then would pay premium by the hour, the rooms were always booked in love hotels too. Noone takes an hour to take care of their love in a love hotel so that translates into big bucks in one day haha. I imagine they failed because they entered something and didn't have a name for themselves to compete, never really looked into that.

I personally believe the whole Nintendo Playstation thing wasn't as bad as I made it sound, I just didn't feel like going into detail. No doubt the Sony Fanboys would flame me for trying to make it seem as if Nintendo is this pure and good company that will take a bullet for us. Haha, but I trust them far more than any other company in the industry.

Also, I really think Sony should just pay the damage and move on to a better control design. The dual shock tech and controller is dated and needs to be improved. It is so frustrating controlling FPSs and even driving simulators with that controller, at least for me.

I'm curious to know how Immersion is handling 3rd party controller developers. Do they all play fair or does Immersion just ignore them because they'd rather go for the big dogs/largest sum of money, or are we just not hearing about the lawsuits against them because no one really cares.

Anticrawl

The way i remember this law suit when it first came out, "the DC and the N64" used external add ons that made them able to be imune to the action, but the dual shock did not. Then they kept on using it with the ps2 and the xbox decided to use the same tech. Thats why they got their asses handed to them. Im not sure about the wavebird?

heh. i feel the same about the dualshock, and i agree with the guy who said something about how lame it is that it doesnt have analog triggers. i agree. however. there are playstation fanboys who think that the gamecube controller is the worst they've ever used...
i guess its a matter of opinion, but i think as far as typical controllers can take us, gamecubes is the best one ever, hands down.
its all about brainwash. you know, like the 32% of people who still actually approve of what president bush is doing?

I am sure the fact Microsoft owns a stake in Immersion has nothing to do with this.
Microsoft are up to their old tricks again.

That's moronic. This suit was in action before Microsoft owned Immersion. Remember, Microsoft was sued as well. They settled.

So yes, this suit and Microsoft owning Immersion are connected, but in the reverse way of what your conspiracy theories are implying. Microsoft owns Immersion because of this suit, it isn't that Immersion has the suit because Microsoft owns them.


Crackpot.

So yes, this suit and Microsoft owning Immersion are connected, but in the reverse way of what your conspiracy theories are implying. Microsoft owns Immersion because of this suit, it isn't that Immersion has the suit because Microsoft owns them.

---


With Microsoft owning 10% of Immersion, I am sure they ask them to drop the case on a daily basis.
Because, clearly, Immersion causing trouble for Sony does not serve Microsoft's interests.


Sorry, no name calling from me. I chose to keep the high ground.

alright. i've tried hard to stay away from the patent parts of this dispute. evidently, i can't. it tend to be pretty draconian in my opinions tho. and, considering i've made money selling games and software i've created, art i've created and had 'inventions' that made substantial money 'stolen' from me, i feel like i'm justified in my opinions.

the patent system is broken. copyright is too.

it's an antiquated, clumsy cumbersome system where the folks making the decisions on the obviousness or prior art of any given patent are not anywhere remotely qualified to be making those decisions.

i mean, who in god's name would patent the hyperlink? or, lord help us, emoticons?
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/15792.php

no. patents were relevant 100 years ago. not so much now, but, that's a whole different story. read lawrence lessig or get more information from the eff to fill in the gaps.

[i deleted a whole bunch of angry drivel that was purely me venting about the patent system and copyright being for people only interested in stifling innovation and resting on their laurels. it was too long and noone would have cared.]

success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. having some third party grant you 'negative rights' is a stupid way to run a capitalist society.

m3mnoch.

"With Microsoft owning 10% of Immersion, I am sure they ask them to drop the case on a daily basis.
Because, clearly, Immersion causing trouble for Sony does not serve Microsoft's interests.


Sorry, no name calling from me. I chose to keep the high ground."

No, you accused Microsoft of being evil.


But why WOULD Microsoft ask Immersion to drop the suit? It's a valid suit, one which Microsoft paid. Why would they have someone drop a valid suit? Ever?

If you slip and your sister are driving and negligently hit by a FedEx truck, then you settled out of court, would you urge your sister to drop the suit against FedEx?

This should have been settled out of court as it seems Sony is in the red this time around. But I do agree that IP, patent laws and copyright laws all need some major reform. And m3mnoch, I probably would have appreciated your angry venting.

If Immersion had brought this up when the first dual shock came out instead of waiting until well into the life span of the PS2, I wouldn't think they were a bunch of money grubbing ip leeches. (Not saying they are, but waiting this long is awfully foolish...and convenient)

Patent law is ridiculous, but sony riped this companys idear with absolutly no intention of paying them. they should be sued and this is what the patent law was made for.

"On another note. I only recently realised that Sony's controllers have no triggers. Maybe I've played too many racers on the Xbox but how on earth do you drive properly in a game without triggers? Seeing that racing games are Sony's "killer genre" surely it would be wise to stick some kind of analogue control in there somewhere?"

I'm not sure if you are definig "triggers" differently than "shoulder buttons" for some reason but the Dual Shock has always had four of them (L1, L2, R1, R2) Which to me has always been much more usefull than only having two (or three on the GC).

Also I feel really sad If I actually have to point out to someone that "Every" Button on the Dual Shock 2 has Analog Functionality. Every single button (except L3, R3, Start, and Select) as well as the D-pad are pressure sensitive (meaning they can sense 256 degrees of varying pressure). Personaly I feel this is the most underated feature of the DS2. Not only are you not limited to using the shoulder buttons for Gas/break in racing games (I much prefer using the face buttons, personally) but some other games have used the Analoug functionality in very cleaver ways (most notably MGS3 and the way you can slowly decock guns, among other things). Also, I like the fact that when you aren't using the pressure sensitivity the buttons all still feel like normal buttons. On the xbox and GC controllers I hate using the shoulder buttons for tasks that don't require the analog function (such as shooting in FPS games) because when trying to press the button rapidly I fail to fully release it and depending on how the game is programmed this can prevent it from registring a seperate pull each time.

Overall I think the Dual Shock 2 is the best controller to date, primarially because of its fully analog controll. Every time I play a game that utilizes it and has been ported to the xbox I really miss it (the GTA series is a great example). and While I do sometimes prefer the "pull distance" variability of the Xbox triggers to the "pressure" variability of the Dual Shock 2 there is still no excuse for why microsoft and nintendo did not make the other face buttons on their controllers with the pressure sensitivity.

While controller Layout is a matter of personal Preference (and I do prefer the xbox layout for some games) in a direct comparison of features the Dual Shock 2 is clearly the most superior controller:

Dual Shock 2 - 8 Analog buttons, Analog D-Pad, 2 Analog Sticks, 4 Digital Buttons.

Xbox Controller - 2 analog buttons, Digital D-Pad, 2 Analog Sticks, 10 digital buttons.

GC controller - 2 analog buttons, Digital D-Pad, 2 Analog Sticks, 6 digital Buttons

That being said, if Sony Stole any of their patents it was very stupid and they need to pay for them, but I still hope the Dual Shock 2 Design is carried over for the PS3. If anything is changed I hope it is simply the switching of the D-pad and left stick and the possible addition of even more buttons (you can never have too many) and of course, make it wireless.

Also, FANBOY DISCLAMER: I own all three systems and plan on eventually buying all three in the next generation. In my opinion each company is doing their own thing very well (especially nintendo) and I wouldnt really want to go withough any of the systems. I hope they all continue to do well.

Well fact of the matter is Blurb is that they did bring it up with the release of the first dual shock controller. If you've ever tried to sue someone you'd have a little better understanding on how long the process can take.

Anticrawl

But you got to love Nintendo. They were court ordered to send out $5 coupons to everyone who has bought something from Nintendo. What a great way to lose.
Judge:We find you guilty. For your crimes, we will force you to entice customers to buy more of your videogames!!

Michael, where are you getting your controller information from. I don't know about the XBOX, but the Dual shock does not have analog buttons. it has 2 analog sticks, 10 buttons, and a d pad. thats it. Analog buttons are like the Cube L and R buttons, where you can press them a little or a lot, None of Sony's buttons are like that!

garrett. i'm going to be nice because you sound really young.

a patent is a legal monopoly for the length of the patent -- 20 years or so. monopolies, very provably, do not incent innovation.

therefore, patents do not promote innovation.

patent holders, patent attorneys -- everyone will tell you that. the only reason people patent ideas is to 'protect' their ip. it arguably doesn't even guarantee market success. it just makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

once you get into high school, you should pay attention to your economics coach... er... teacher. you might learn something.

m3mnoch.

Anticrawl, I do have an idea on how long it takes, I've been through a business related bankruptcy myself and it didn't take them 8 years to turn around and sue me personally once I filed.

And as for them bringing it up on the first one, I'll gladly admit that I didn't know. :)

Well from personal experience setting up the case alone can take up to 2 years depending on who you're fighting and after that it's usually one hearing within a one year period then several following taking who knows how long. Just personal experience and secondary experience I'm talking from.

Actualy, i think you will all find that Microsoft settled out of court, bought a share in immersion, howver Immersion are Part Owned By nintendo.

Martin, I am getting my controller information from the fact that I own all three systems and use all three controllers. If you don't beleive me go to the store and pick up a ps2 game (since clearly you do not own a ps2). Choose one of the GTA games as an example (as not every game supports the feature). Look on the back, at the bottom where it lists the utilized features (1 player, Vibration function, etc.).

Among those boxes you will see one that says "Analog Control" this means you can use the controllers analog sticks to controll the game. You will also see a box that says "Pressure Sensitive". Now, can anyone tell the class what this means? Thats right, Billy, it means you can press the buttons on the controller with varying degrees of pressure to exert analog control over in-game actions.

If that was too confusing for you (which seems likely) or you still don't beleive me, just go over to a friends house, pop in GTA or most any racing game and get in a car (make sure you are using a Dual Shock 2 and not an original Dual Shock from the PS1). Now press the gas button ever so slightly and you will notice your car start to slowly crawl forward. Now continue to press the button harder and your car will move faster and faster. It takes some practice to get used to the subtle differences in pressure required, but once you do you will find that it is just as functional as the triggers on the xbox or GC, except that now all 8 buttons and the D-pad offer you analog control instead of only the two shoulder buttons. It's like Magic!

If anyone needs me I'll be weeping in the cornerr at the thought that there are "gamers" out thaere that actually had to be told this.

@62, Michael Sweat, the reason most people don't realize all the buttons on the DS2 are analog is because they are not functionally analog. They do not have the full range of sensitivity that the GC & Xbox triggers have. You end up with what amounts to 4-5 separate digital points in the controller depression. This is not a fault of the technology, but a flaw in the design of the face and shoulder buttons on the controller.

eh heh heh heh..