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Reader Comments (67)

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 2:51PM karmaghost said

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Gimping the KB+M controllers doesn't sit well with me and definitely doesn't help the "which is better" debate. Or maybe it does? Would they have to nerf the KB+M if it wasn't better?

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 3:21PM (Unverified) said

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15. Way to completely freak out and miss the point in favor of being as PC as possible. I didn't call any one racist...maybe remotely like a racist, but having nothing to do with racism. It was a statement about hardheaded beliefs. This "it just is" statement of absolutes is what I'm talking about. Imagine arguing with the "crotchety old man" about why no color is better than any other color...he just doesn't get it because he CAN'T.

I could explain that to a black person and they would understand what it is like trying to argue with a person so set in their ways they it borders on ignorance.

Again, thanks for completely freaking out...you did yourself and the world a lot of good....

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 3:22PM (Unverified) said

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No matter how many times someone explains why they shouldn't use a K/M on a console or Microsoft explains why they don't make one, you just don't get it because you think you know better. You get the answer to "why not" and ignore it. Then, 2 weeks later you ask the exact same question thinking you just dealt with people who don't agree with you and that relative answer changes by asking the question again. The answer STILL hasn't changed. I don't care that "If I just had a K/M, I would pwn you all". That is YOU. I don't care.

The fact of the matter is that very few TV's are set up at desks. Stop locking out controllers from your mind and maybe you will see that K/M is made for PCs and controllers are made for consoles. ...Nope still hasn't changed... ...Sorry, STILL hasn't changed...

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 3:56PM (Unverified) said

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Wow, Warren... Whata hopeless loser. I think I heard him the other day screaming "Boom- Headshot!"

Mouses are such fun. Boy do I love constantly picking up my mouse, moving it ot the far left, rolling it all the way to the right, picking up the mouse again, moving it to the left, rolling, picking, moving, rolling....

Orrrr, pushing my thumb to the right. Done.

You can always tell right away if watching a game video, who is using the outdated mouse and keyboard combo : The ones who stand completely still to shoot, or the ones who only strafe in one direction while firing. ITs pathetic.


[/owned]

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 3:58PM (Unverified) said

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Actually, FASA published a great article on this topic on their website. The consensus was that the "mouse is better at aiming and the controller is better at gaming." There is a longer answer and I highly recommend everyone reads it. FASA is not trying to answer the question of which is better, but rather opening up the gaming community to enable more and more gamers around the world to play together (makes sense, seeing as how it is a multiplayer only game).

I play both PC and console games and I don't prefer one over the other...however, what Joystiq said regarding telling which is which is right in line with what FASA Studios said. Of course they need to add "tweaks" to the controller. That's the business of FPS's on a console. I'm sure Valve had to manipulate the control inputs for the Half-Life series so it could be played via controller on the PS3 and Xbox 360 (oh, and the Xbox...but I know how that turned out...).

The point is, FASA needed to make the came competitive in order to establish, promote, and execute cross-platform gaming. Why would they make a game that could be completely dominated by one group vs. the other? That would be really, really dumb. FASA put a lot of thought into this and it was one of the first topics they had to tackle. Their efforts were gameplay first, bells and whistles (that's graphics) second. And so far, from all the previews out there....they F-ing nailed it.

As a beta tester for the game, I can't say anything because we are limited by the NDA, however I wouldn't be able to comment on the controller vs Mk/B argument anyways because the beta is currently limited to the 360 only.

Regardless the article can be found at:

http://shadowrun.com/behindthescenes/articles/ControllerBalancing.htm



Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 4:32PM (Unverified) said

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Everyone should stop all the bitching. We really should be happy that we are getting to the point that we have a choice in our control. Keyboard and mouse OR pad. This is great. Select the one you like and enjoy. I really didnt like when I was forced to use the pad. I like the kb/mouse for FPS and the pad for race games. Soon we will be able to use what ever we wish for any game. Why must we always find a reason to complain when developers keep giving us improvments. So much bitching...so much whining. Enjoy the game or dont play...just please be quiet. LOL!

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 5:41PM HelghanSuperSniper said

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I would have to agree that one of the best controllers ever made for FPS is the 64 controller BUT...

I used a controller for Quake 3: Arena waaaaay back when just to see how it would work and it was pretty good. But KB & M is still superior for aiming...180 degree turns, aiming while flying through the air, aiming while running, aiming while firing at a target on an elevated position...I logged in over 150 hours of gameplay on Resistance before VF5 came out and I love that game online. It's my new "goldeneye" Even though I can place in the top 5 in a 40 player game more often than not, there are times when you simply can't aim well with dual analog. Auto Aim assist is a must where as, kb & m needs no auto aim assist unless it's for a n00b.

Believe you me, when UT 2007 arrives for the PS3, if it support kb & m, that is what I will use.

WASD FTW!

Posted: Feb 23rd 2007 6:58PM (Unverified) said

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I think the Wiimote is a good compromise. HOpefully Ms or Sony or both will copy it in some form.

The beauty too is they can include a regular controller shell with it like the Classic Controller for the Wii for developers that want to stick with the joypad.

Posted: Feb 24th 2007 12:26AM Politicalgamer said

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I shall actually declare that all first person controls suck, gamepads or mouse & keyboard.
I came to this realization when I was at the Weekly Geek's (then radio, but now podcast) video game tournament when a round of Halo came up. My problem: I was used to Goldeneye/Perfect Dark's 1.2 controls, not Halo's default (which switches the aim and movement sticks). When you use a control configuration that you're very familiar with, either on the keyboard/mouse or gamepad, everything moves smoothly. But when even one control set is switched, you just begin to suck because nothing comes naturally.
The problem isn't the perpective, it's that everyone is trained toward one set of configurations, and it takes forever to move to another. That is one reason I believe that most PC FPS fans disprove of a gamepad; they just aren't as familiar with it. The same thing happens when a console gamer goes PC.
It comes down to preference. In my experience, the mouse offers aim, but gamepads offer better movement. In the end, it's the actual game I care about, and would only choose the PC version of a game due to the modding capability, not the controls.

Posted: Feb 25th 2007 3:45PM (Unverified) said

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The gamepad users beat the K/M users?
All I can say is that the PC players must've severely sucked.
Seriously, just look at the two devices and try to make the comparision. The KB/M combination has over 100 individually-mappable buttons, and a pointing device that has effectivly no limits in mobility and precision.
You can watch professional Halo players and professional CS players and tell the difference. I've always noticed top-notch Halo players simply riding on the hope that they can "lead the target", that is, slide the crosshair where they think the enemy will land and start firing. In any console FPS, any moving target can easily move too fast for the physical motion of an analog stick to keep up. This is something that has gotten on my nerves in every single console FPS i've ever played.
The PC players, on the other hand, have an aiming device thats fast enough to keep up with anything. And thus, the timeless art of "tracking" is born. The Halo players can try as good as they want to slide the crosshairs where they hope the target will land, but with the PC, a seasoned player can simply point at a target and "lock on" to its very head and never let the crosshairs go. Watch all those ownage videos out there of both styles of games, and you'll see what I mean.
And actually play the two styles of games, too. In a bunch of made-for-PC FPS, some of the rifles never even have scopes. Ya know why? The players dont need 'em. I remember when Doom 3 got ported to the XBox, not only did I find autoaim enabled, but also a cheesy little "zoom" function mapped to the left trigger. You can zoom in the PC version as well, but I played entirely through the game without ever even noticing it.
Oh, and yeah. Most console games require you to tediously scroll through menus for activating items and powers and such. Most made-for-PC games simply encourage using as many of those 107 keys as possible. See the Fable port, where on the console you have 4 quick-action commands corresponding to the D-pad. Then the PC version, where you have 10 quick-action buttons, corresponding to the number keys, on top of three context-sensitive actions that are mapped to, respectivly, F1, F2, and F3.

Posted: Feb 24th 2007 10:57AM (Unverified) said

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RE: 56. Wow, Warren... Whata hopeless loser. I think I heard him the other day screaming "Boom- Headshot!"

Mouses are such fun. Boy do I love constantly picking up my mouse, moving it ot the far left, rolling it all the way to the right, picking up the mouse again, moving it to the left, rolling, picking, moving, rolling....

Orrrr, pushing my thumb to the right. Done.

You can always tell right away if watching a game video, who is using the outdated mouse and keyboard combo : The ones who stand completely still to shoot, or the ones who only strafe in one direction while firing. ITs pathetic.


[/owned]

Posted at 3:56PM on Feb 23rd 2007 by Quigs

Uhh... what? Have you ever actually played a FPS on a PC? No one stops and shoots unless it's a tactical game like R6 or something. In Q3 I'm constantly moving... I'd love to see a game pad user bounce someone up with a rocket, switch to the rail gun and finish them off in mid-air while jumping and evading their opponent at the same time.

I never pick my mouse up. I move the mouse 3-3 1/2 inches to do a 360 degree turn. If you're moving the mouse that much you need to bump up the sensitivity a bit.

I've seen some awesome SOCOM, Halo and MGS:O player videos. There's no way I'd ever be able to stand up to them with a game pad. But if I had a mouse and keyboard? I'd definitely be healthy competition.

Posted: Mar 6th 2007 7:03AM (Unverified) said

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OMG - you people are completely ridiculous and amazingly short sided. The K+M doesn't absolutely trump the controller for all game types, and neither does the controller trump the M+K.

The mouse (just the mouse) is more precise then using a thumb stick. End of story, it isn't even debatable. As result, the mouse is always going to be better than a thumb stick when it comes to fast, twitch-based shooting action that require great precision at hectic speeds. BUT, I know from personal experience then when you’re not playing a FPS that is very much like Unreal Tournament (blazingly fast), the need for the increased precision is not needed.

With that said, if you use to playing FPS on PC and that is your preferred method, even on the "slower" shooter, you’re going to hate using a controller. For players who got into console FPS first or as well, and are fine with that (after all, 99% of console shooters aren’t like UT's ridiculously fast speeds) using the controller and thumb stick will be no problem to them , it might even be better for them.

Unless the game is like UT and is very fast and requires ridiculously precise aiming at high speeds - then there is no absolute to which is better or who will win more. You will perform better with the controls you are familiar with and prefer.

As for the turning 180-degree’s issue, Lost Planet proved you could map quick-turn movements (90-degrees in the direction of the shoulder button you press) to certain buttons on a controller so you could also pull blazingly fast 180-degree turns. Of course, that game never actually requires you to do it, so one wonder why they bothered at all. Perhaps UT2007 on the consoles will use it – it should.

In a game like UT2007 – K+M rules supreme. In the other kinds of shooters that exist, I think it’s all about what YOU happen to own with. Since Shadowrun doesn’t look like an UT clone, what’s all the fuss about? Doesn’t seem like a game where the K+M owns… doesn’t make it bad and doesn’t mean auto-aim is on for anyone.

Posted: Mar 6th 2007 7:15AM (Unverified) said

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"Oh, and yeah. Most console games require you to tediously scroll through menus for activating items and powers and such. Most made-for-PC games simply encourage using as many of those 107 keys as possible"

I play just as much on my PC as I do on my xbox/360 and I have never had to 'tediously scroll' through menu's to get anything to happen. Perhaps you have never seen a person play a console RPG, but "slow" or "tedious" is now how I would describe the menu maneuvering.

I also have never come across a game where I need even 1/4 of the keys on the keyboard - unless where talking about an RTS built around the keyboard, it isn't "better"

Your a pathetic PC elitist who cant imagine that the K=M is only better for a specific type of genre of game... Get over it baby.

Hmmm, what do you do when you play a third person action game? Lemme guess, you use a game pad. Or your a tard and you try and play a game like SC or theif with the mouse - now who's playing with the substandard controls for the game type?

Hmmm, how about racers? a wheel? Nah, you probably think steering with a mouse is better too, right?

Posted: Mar 18th 2007 2:26PM (Unverified) said

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Either I have not read all the comments posted or I, simply, have not seen it written.

Here's the deal, IMHO: FPSs and RTSs are much easier with a keyboard+mouse combo. On the other hand, sports games and action games involving a 3rd person view are unquestionably easier on a gamepad.

Go online on your PC and try playing MADDEN or FIFA with a keyboard+mouse and you WILL get your @$$ handed to you in no time. Now, like any other field of "discussion" you have your exceptions, but for the most part, I am sorry to say; it's true.

I play my COD, CS, and Quake with a keyboard and mouse and my MADDEN, FIFA and Onimusha 3 with a gamepad.

Posted: Mar 18th 2007 2:31PM (Unverified) said

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Lol, sorry I, mistakenly haven't read the comment posted on #65.

I agree 100% with you, James. And that's coming from a hardcore PC gamer.

Posted: Apr 6th 2007 9:34PM (Unverified) said

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Why does it matter which is better. All that matters is which one you feel more comfortable playing. I count myself in the gamepad camp because gamepads have always felt more comfortable and intuitive to me. Maybe it's because I'm a fan of more realistic shooters, and turning 180 degrees around in .1 seconds is not something that's physically possible while holding a gun. All I know is the games I play on 360 (RSV, COD2) would lose a lot of the fun if I switched to M/KB.

PS Will someone please tell me where in the article does it say that auto aim was turned on for gamepads because I sure as hell don't see it. Just because someone on a gamepad was kicking ass doesn't mean he had auto aim turned on. That's just the kind of 'auto prejudice' from the m/kb camp that makes me typically avoid this debate.

Posted: May 11th 2007 5:32PM idiotekniQues said

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shadowrun is not a true fps. i cant wait for a real aim-based fps to come out cross-platform and then pit good pc gamers against good console gamers.

the debate will be settles once and for all. mouse/keyboard is simply better for the fps genre.

obviously controllers are better for arcade style/sports/driving games. for fps and rts, no contest.


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