I think the real point, regardless of the demographics, is that you have this large install base, but said install base is basically split in half. One half buys a lot of games, reads reviews and is active in the gaming community(that would be us), the other half does none of these things, is uninformed and just buys games with Mario in them. So essentially when it comes to 3rd party software you can only rely on half of the Wii install base even knowing about a games existence.

hey man i was shocked i didn't see you playing mgs day one!! not sure if you'll value my opinion or you think i'm one of those fanboys(noshino,fiddy HEY!!) but i loved every min of the game!! its my favorite game this gen...the cut scenes are pretty long but if your a hardcore fan they are total gold!! well thats my 2 cents about it!!hope to see you on for some mgo!! OH!!add me on it its the-e-hd...

where is fernando??i miss that guy...

I know, I got kinda put off from the game after hearing a crap load of hate on it. That, and also the fact that my videogame piggy bank was empty last week since I had just purchased NG2 the previous week. Good to hear your opinion The-E. Watch out for me later on this week though, and you're already on my friends list for PSN.

no you gotta add me inside mgo again....i know a pain in the ass....an whats ng2 like??it got pretty good reviews and but loads of people have been saying its disappointing...

Oh, ok yeah cool I'll send you a message over PSN for your info again. NG2 is amazing! Yes there are camera problems (just like in ALL of the NG's) but I set my 3rd person camera movement speed to max settings and its no problem for me or 2 of my other buddies that picked it up.

I just love the game. I played the Sigma demo this weekend and have to admit that although Sigma does look slightly better since its running at 1080p that NG2 is faster, bloodier, has better weapons, bigger bosses, larger environments, finishing moves for enemies with severed limbs, just everything NG was to the next level. Looks very very clean and sharp even with all the crazy action going on all around you.

Like the reviews say, if you're an action fan you will love the game. It got penalized in reviews for stupid reasons. It could easily get 9.0's across the board.

Dude, that's a pretty shitty comment. If the game is fun, I'll buy it. A game doesn't need a full arsenal to be enjoyable...

Why not? We paid for a game called Viva Pinata, that most of us would defend to the death as a good buy.

It's a fantastic game and I've been reccomending it to everyone, but he has a point. If it's not brown and full of half-naked women and steroid-soaked men with chainsaws, the gamers who scream about how hardcore they are won't buy it.

Roto...Viva Pinata has sold almost 2 million copies to a smaller install base with nary a steroid or chainsaw in sight, so what the hell are you talking about?

I will defend Viva Pinata to the death!

Ain't nobody talkin smack bout my Chewnicorns!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/12/14/

My impression is that hardcore gamers are looking for substance and challenge. Casual gamers play for the sake of playing.

So, why wouldn't a hardcore gamer buy a cute game like Katamari? I recall that game wasn't supposed to sell well in the first place, and almost didn't make it to America at all, but it totally took hardcore gamers by storm.

Yes, hardcore gamers will buy cute games. Despite my pessimism, those kinds of games tend to be my favorites, because they're just more fun and interesting than the harshly-lit, macho, gangsta bullshit. God, I can't believe anyone still makes those games at all.

"The bulk of the best games are from Nintendo themselves, which is not to say there aren't quality third party titles-- there are, but the ones that are there, are competing with Nintendo."

Damnit, no. This logic doesn't make sense. Why is it ONLY Nintendo that these companies ever compete with? Why not the fear over SCEA or MS's in-house teams, who also make good or great games? It's a lame excuse and it's a fiction.

The FACT of the matter is that:
A) 3rd parties don't try on Nintendo consoles. Since the N64 it's been spin offs and budget releases almost the entire way.
B) When they DO try, one of the following occurs:
B1) They are met with relatively strong sales (see: RE games on GC
B2) It's a new franchise/IP, which is risky no matter WHAT platform you develop for. Usually you need a HUGE advertising campaign as well as hype to get it off the ground.

So these 3rd parties aren't competing with Nintendo. They just don't TRY and then throw their hands up when it predictably fails in the marketplace.

@Samfish

It comes into play more than you think. I think a lot of people do buy Nintendo systems for Nintendo games. And I do think it's hard to compete against their mascots. Take the 360 for example, if you're creating a FPS you likely want to avoid timijg your game's release with a Halo release, but that becomes harder to do on a Nintendo system because they plaster their damn mascots in just about every game they can.

Vidikron, that's bunk and you know it. There's a huge difference between a Mario sports or Party game as opposed to a main Mario game. Even assuming this fear of going against Nintendo has any standing in reality, you're also acting like they release a Mario-related game every month.
But they don't. They release, at BEST, 3 a year. So even making room for a 3 week window (one week before, one during, one after), that leaves publishers with PLENTY of time to get their game out in the clear. Even if you expand that to a 5 week window, there's MORE than enough time to release a game and not have to worry AT ALL about going up against Nintendo.

I GUARANTEE you that if just ONE of these publishers would actually TRY on one of their Wii games and treated it like one of their big-budget PS360 games, it would see comparable sales.

"Damnit, no. This logic doesn't make sense. Why is it ONLY Nintendo that these companies ever compete with? Why not the fear over SCEA or MS's in-house teams, who also make good or great games? It's a lame excuse and it's a fiction."

Because Nintendo doesn't treat them as 3rd part studios, they are pretty much left on their own. I have yet to hear from a publisher come out and say "oh, we have gotten help from Nintendo to make the most of the power of the console" unlike the Sony or Microsoft, not only that, depending on how big the title is, they get free advertisement from them... Hell, I remember seeing about 4 to 5 different ads of DMC4 PS3 on Japan alone, yup, none of that money was from the studios pocket

"The FACT of the matter is that:
A) 3rd parties don't try on Nintendo consoles. Since the N64 it's been spin offs and budget releases almost the entire way.

B) When they DO try, one of the following occurs:
B1) They are met with relatively strong sales (see: RE games on GC
B2) It's a new franchise/IP, which is risky no matter WHAT platform you develop for. Usually you need a HUGE advertising campaign as well as hype to get it off the ground."

Uh, back on the N64 era it was different, developers didn't develop for Nintendo's console due to price and their oppresive QA, and they also didn' develop for the NGC because by the time it was released the PS2 was already successful.

Ok, but there have been many developers that have tried their best, what about Viewtiful Joe? Huge campaing, advertisement everywhere, and on top of that, out of nowhere information was leaked about an upcoming anime series, yet, it didn't sell....(oh, and if you want to pull the "there was a PS2 port launched a year later", that wasn't announced til months after the released of the NGC version)

"So these 3rd parties aren't competing with Nintendo. They just don't TRY and then throw their hands up when it predictably fails in the marketplace."

Yes they are competing against Nintendo, it is their system, they want studios to be interested on it? then give them a hand, it doesn't hurt to do so, don't they have enough money to do so?

When you pay license fees, you are supposed to be part of a development network. You're responsible for publishing and advertisement, but as far as development is concerned, the console companies are supposed to help you make software.

Nintendo does not do this. They are above such things. Hell, Nintendo is famous for intentionally withholding hardware documentation from developers. Is it any wonder good 3rd party developers left for the Playstation, where Sony offered excellent hardware and development resources, so Nintendo was left with the crap?

This, incidentally, resulted in Nintendo making lots of money on a "failed" N64. The company is simply continuing the tradition to this very day, proudly yakking all the way that they actually love 3rd party developers, and hey... did you know how much money they are making? Wouldn't you like some of that, too? Make crap for us, and lots of it, and you too can pay license fees up the wazoo!

Boom Blox will benefit from the Long Tail. It's still being actively advertised on TV...moreso now than at launch, in fact. I see it advertised on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon fairly regularly, and word of mouth is selling this game. I know several people in my office who bought it and love it...and a lot of the Wiis success comes in the form of word-of-mouth marketing.

Not every game has to sell Halo 3 or GTA IV numbers right out of the gate. Most Nintendo titles become Evergreens, selling at a steady rate for the long-haul, and spiking at holiday seasons.

Would that be Senor Spielbergo?

Hardcores didn't buy it either.

"That is the plain and simple truth because most Wii owners don't care about videogames like we do. They go to the store, look for familiar images and names on the box and buy it."

This is true for almost all gamers, though. That's why Guitar Hero III outsold Rock Band, why EA can charge $50 for a yearly update of Madden, and why Halo 3 can be the best selling game of the generation despite mediocre reviews. Nearly everyone would prefer to buy a familiar image then an unknown one.

Good Point. That's how two Resident Evil games, two Sonic games, Carnival Games, Guitar Hero III, Raving Rabbids and Red Steel all got to be in the million-seller category. For having Mario in them. Oh wait, only Mario and Sonic at the Olympics actually did that.

The Wii has 22 million-seller titles. Of those, 8 are third party. Of those 8, Mario is in exactly one. Of the Wii's First party million-sellers, 8 of those don't feature Mario at all. I would argue that SSBM should count, even though it features Mario on the cast.

Either way, it's demonstrably wrong that 3rd party titles sell on the Wii and that only Mario sells.

Have you even looked at Wii sales figures? Wii's success isn't just about Mario you know...

The same damn thing can be said about all consoles. Hell, most of the PS2 library is absolute trash, though there were a good number of gems. Seriously, as long as a crappy game has a pop culture tie-in, it will sell. It's not a Wii issue, it's a human gullibility issue.

BTW, top box office performers and top 100 buillboard singles are rarely the highest rated movies or songs.

Then get a 360 or PS3.

To Jason: he said he wanted good games!

The problem isn't aren't causals, the problem is is that Capcom did a shitty job advertising Z&W. Want to know how bad their advertising campaign was? It got to the point where sites such as Go Nintendo, had to start their own advertising campaigns in order to get people to buy it. And apparently not even your average core gamer bought the game.

Wow, can people get off Fernandos case already? The guys been pretty non-trollish for a while now.

@fenix

This. And the people bitching about him have become even worst than him.

100% agreed

You know you've hit it big on the Internets when you have droves of trolls going after you.

And now we're getting people who bitch all the time about the people who bitch about Fernando. Great. Anyway, I feel no pity for him and don't know why you guys bother defending him. He did this to himself.

And now we have people bitching about people bitching about blablablabla

ENDLESS CYCLE

So you got a game you love, and you're going to sell the system? Yeah...

I feel bad about it, but I'm seriously considering the same...

If you like creation-mode games and play local (not online) multiplayer games, you will get your $50 worth. If you just want to run through the single player mode once, then you are correct - $20-30 is a more appropriate price.