Nintendo: GTA Chinatown Wars sales 'frustrating'

The former is a problem that should be more easily overcome. Certainly a fanbase for mature games hasn't quite been cultivated on the DS, but there has to be something underlying

The second point i think is apt. People may not recognize it as a GTA game, and thus it loses its established franchise edge.

Here's the proof too. As of March 28, 2008..Liberty City Stories on psp has sold 8 million copies, and vice city stories sold about 4.5-5 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto:_Liberty_City_Stories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto:_Vice_City_Stories#Reception

This is on the supposed piracy ridden PSP too, but it was made to how most people like GTA so they went out and bought it.

I certainly think it was less about the maturity and all about the fact it looked like a gimped take on the franchise, coming after the PSP got the Stories spin-offs.

The PSP version of CW sold worse fool, why are you bring up other, completely different games instead of the same game since it exists on both platforms? Why would you expect CW to sell better on DS which doesn't have the PSP fanbase the PSP has thanks to all the past titles? And yet, it did sell better on DS. Lol. Clearly the lack of better sales (though Rockstar suck for expecting the game that cost a fraction of a "real" GTA's cost to sell as much as those, it probably made a BIG profit on DS with those sales yet they complained) isn't the platform's fault but the game and its marketing and your twisting doesn't change that simple, obvious fact.

You clearly lack simple reading comprehension, but you spell your name with numbers so I'm not surprised.

People didn't buy CW because it's top down, as I said at least twice. I gave the sales of the psp gtas because they're similar to GTA 3-san andreas, which is convienently when the series exploded in popularity. It wasn't hard to put 2 and 2 together to figure out why CW bombed.

@T-Mac

I like to give you crap when you say outlandish things and at first I was skeptical when you said this wouldn't sell well because it was a top down GTA. However, now that I have some perspective on the matter and I look back on it I think you are actually 100% unequivocally correct. The fact it's a mature game on the DS doesn't help it out either but IMO the main reason it didn't sell is because it's a top down GTA that most people don't care to play all that much.

You deserve shit when you say dumb stuff (like everyone else) and credit when you nail something on the head. You nailed this one on the head.

Hey man I know you like hoops ... you watching the Kentucky vs UConn game on ESPN? It's insane ... John Wall is the best freshman player I've ever seen (better than Rose, Durant & Oden.)

@Al3xand3r

Why do you keep bringing up the PSP version? This was a game made for the DS and it was only ported to the PSP 7 months later because the sales were "frustrating" on the DS. It's not like they added anything to the PSP version or redid the graphics. They took out the stylus controls and ported it to the PSP. We have plenty of history to see mature games flourish on the PSP but on the DS thats really not the case.

I don't really see what you're going on about ... Cammie said it clear as day. Yeah the PSP version flopped but it was also a port done 7 months later with even less marketing than the under marketed DS version and features removed. Also, if I'd of known there were going to be a PSP version I wouldn't of even picked it up on the DS so I'm sure there are some multi-console owners who did the same thing.

DS owners are gamers like anyone else, they don't have different gameplay or maturity standards. A game not wanted on DS is a game not wanted anywhere so still blaming the platform for not selling "mature" games is stupid when a platform that does sell mature games as you even claim yourself still couldn't sell this particular game. And they did redo the graphics, have you actually seen the game or are you talking out of your ass? It's almost 100% overhauled, from the city graphics to the cars and the lighting, only the little characters remain the same. And yes, the port was done because the sales were supposdelly disapointing, but it's still the game's fault since he PSP port clearly didn't help the sales enough to be "not disapointing" anymore. It was a problem of expectations, GTA top down is a NICHE game, not a MAINSTREAM game, so to expect MAINSTREAM sales from it was stupid. It cost a fraction of a "real" GTA's cost, it got a fraction of the marketing, yet they expect it to be a million seller? Well, the joke's on them for not being able to understand the very industry they're in.

Nintendo doesn't exactly help that perspective with their own output.

Which should help prove that the problem lies elsewhere than platform choice

Oh, but see, Nintendo only respects games that have broken 1 million, which GTA CTW hasn't.
PSP version is very good btw, I'm loving it :D

Why would that matter? This was a DS exclusive game that released in the most barren time of the year that had GTA branding and was built specifically for the DS. If the two versions released side by side you'd have a point but they didn't so you don't.

"If the two versions released side by side you'd have a point but they didn't so you don't."

If you go back and read those old GTA: CW topics, though (on probably any website), you'll find no shortage of people prattling on about how it flopped because M-rated games don't sell on Nintendo consoles and it would have been a hit if it were on the PSP.

It's just a little bit of chest thumping. heh- as someone who argued that it had nothing to do with being a Mature game (I think I did, at least), it feels nice to have a sense of vindication after so many people said it would be a huge hit on the PSP.

@Sam

But it is a different set of circumstances. This is a DS game through and through and if they released side by side things could've been different. Look when it released on the PSP and it had even less marketing than the DS version got in it's release window. I do think if they released side by side that the sales would've been comparable but it really doesn't matter because their release circumstances were completely different.

But, I do agree that in a way the game flopped on both platforms because it was a top down GTA that people aren't all that interested in playing anymore. Being a mature title on the DS certainly didn't do the game any favors and I think we can at least agree on that. Maybe it wasn't the nail in the coffin most thought originally.

I still come back to the fact this was a GTA game made specifically for the DS (announced at E3 during the keynote if memory serves by Reggie) that released in the slowest time of the year for games (best possible release window) and it's sales were "frustrating" in the words of Cammie.

The PSP stuff makes good fodder and it proves a point to a certain extent but I think it is a distraction for the most part that shifts the conversation away from how hard this game failed on the DS.

Let me also point out that I bought the game on the DS and at that time I remember saying I wished it were on the PSP simply because of the difference in controls. I think it's a good game but it's just not GTA and thats on Rockstar not Nintendo.

True, it's a different set of circumstances, but one could just as well argue that for all the talk about how popular it would be if it were on the PSP, you'd still expect the game's sales to be at least somewhat comparable to the DS version. To my understanding, they're far, far below it.
You could also counter that just as the DS game released during a slow period, the PSP game released during the holiday shopping after the PSPgo was recently released (or was it before?) and there wasn't much other marquee content on the PSP to compete with it, aside from LBP (which is getting a big push) and maybe GT.

Ultimately though I'd agree that what really killed the game both times was the fact that it's not a 3D/"real" GTA game. All the other factors involved on both platforms likely could have contributed, but were comparatively just noise.

That's probably b/c psp owners have been begging for a San Andreas stories for a long time now and instead they give us a port of a Top-down view ds game.I'm just shocked to know that more than ten people went out and bought it for psp.

You could say the same thing comparing normal 360/PS3 games to games like Halo.

Main point is that it sold much worse on the PSP so anybody claiming it was Nintendo or DS that caused it to sell bad hasn't even bothered reading the comments here.

It's a great game. It does a very good job of pushing the DS's capabilities and balancing both old-school and modern GTA gameplay. Definitely worth the $30.

I mean for me it's a good game but it just didn't feel like GTA. You can probably get it hella cheap (I got my mine for $15 at a BB sale) and assuming you don't pay MSRP it's worth it. I just thought that it was so-so. If it weren't a GTA game it would have been better but by those standards it fell short.

I think the crux of the matter is this:

Look back at perspective. GTA IV released on the PS360 and the Houser feller (one of the GTA creator guys) said that he wouldn't make a game on the Wii platform because he is interested in making games epic in scope (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/03/rockstars-dan-houser-disses-casual-gaming-explains-process-of/), GTA IV was one of the best selling games ever at the time and critically acclaimed. Then, during E3 2008 (few months later) Nintendo announces that they will have GTA on a Nintendo platform (no doubt trying to placate those hungry for the franchise on their Nintendo platform) during the keynote address (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/15/nintendo-announces-gta-chinatown-wars/)

... so you had this climate where the Rockstar guys weren't all that interested in Nintendo platforms but obviously got a deal done with Nintendo to make this game (Chinatown Wars) specifically for the DS. You even had Nintendo representatives coming out and straight up saying the sales of this game specifically would prove mature content belongs on the DS (http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/04/17/nintendo-chinatown-wars-sales-will-prove-m-rated-content-belongs-on-ds/)

... so Nintendo had a lot riding on this game being a runaway success (their own words) to prove to Rockstar and other developers that the DS and Wii are viable platforms for their mature franchises. Now, there seems to be a blame game going on from the newest tone of Nintendo. When you look at the sales in a vacuum they aren't the worst thing in the world but knowing the history of how this game came to be and what was expected from it you can't consider it anything but a failure.

Nobody's wanted to play top-down GTA games since GTA 3 came out.

How the hell are you supposed to evade police when you can't see any more than 3 feet of the road in front of you? Fuck that.

It's called "driving like a madman". The chaos that ensued in the top-down GTAs were fast paced and insane if you kept moving.
3D GTAs are crazy in themselves, but there was a lot more chaos in the top-down versions in my opinion... cars flying everywhere, while the policemen run over several innocent civilians just trying to park, holing up in a gang's stronghold as they start to send in the military and watching all your gang buddies fight back with insane weapons...

I love me my 3D GTAs, especially when it comes to gun fights inside buildings and on motorcycles, but there was seriously more fast-paced action in the top-down one.

...evading police was easy.. as long as you drove fast enough.