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Reader Comments (63)

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:07AM StickyKrippy said

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Sucky situation. Just glad I got it before it was yanked!

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 4:16AM EvoHelix said

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@StickyKrippy If you put it on megaupload for me I would love you forever
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 4:26AM Pete207 said

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@StickyKrippy Got it too :) I feel kids bad that I don't play it and there is people who want it and can't get it... I'm sorry :-(
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 8:23AM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@EvoHelix

You can still use the original torrent link, there's so many people still sharing it that you will get hundreds of seeds from just the peer to peer searching without a tracker.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 12:19PM Colin said

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@Colin

As a followup; if you get it from BD, the guide is still on his blog at the very bottom.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 1:07PM dnelson1025 said

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@Colin

can you post a link to his blog? I can't find it. there are 1,000,000,000 tyler smith's
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 1:32PM Colin said

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@dnelson1025

It was linked below, but I'll repost to keep it all in one place.

http://morrowind2011.ultimaaiera.com/

Have fun guys.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:10AM StickyKrippy said

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Yeah! This guy using our mods, which we have no legal ownership of, is such a criminal!

Jeez, people are petty.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 3:21AM wcarnation said

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@StickyKrippy I INCLUDED A .TXT IN MY MOD'S ZIP, SO NOW ITS TOTALLY PROTECTED BY LAW
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 4:03AM Benedict said

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@wcarnation - What, haven't you heard of internet protocol laws?

Really though, even just a simple text document can suffice as a fully legally binding document.

I think that the mod authors should be happy that their mods are (now) getting such publicity. Wouldn't it now be to their benefit that they band together and try and get Morrowind 2011 running perfectly..?
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 8:24AM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@Benedict

But as this article has shown, whether those text documents, legally binding or not, have any stance at all, depends on what bethesda has put in the EULA about mods.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:12PM janizary said

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@wcarnation By creating anything, it is their work. An original mesh, texture or sound file is the legal property of the creator. Read about the Berne convention, you rube.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 9:06PM sortius said

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@janizary actually, no, that's not true if the EULA says all assets made for the game are owned by Bethesda. Similar to the EULA on YouTube that removes ownership from the user.
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Posted: Jan 24th 2011 10:17AM Magetf said

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@StickyKrippy

I had a somewhat similar situation once, I had applied a mod to a game, decided to mod a different part myself, then packaged the whole thing up not realizing of the dozens of textures I redid, a scant few weren't mine. Rather than approaching me and asking, he threw a hissy fit, so I apologized and spent the 20 minutes it took to make new versions of his textures and re-released the mod. It was the only mod I ever released, that experience really turned me off to the mod community.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:40AM milK said

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Wait, so he offered the same things the authors of those mods did, but just pre-packaged them. He didn't charge money for it either AND he took the effort of writing a detailed discription of how to get it all to work.... and they got him banned by his ISP (amongst other things)?

Seriously... I don't get it.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 3:35AM Courtney said

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@milK

From what I read early on, he failed to give credit to many (maybe all) of the original mod makers in the first distribution, which is simply rude and the kind of thing to annoy people who spend a lot of time making mods. He did fix that and include credit after that, but I think it left such a bad taste in some people's mouths that they just wouldn't drop it.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:08AM wcarnation said

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@Courtney He did include credit from the start, they were just being big babies about it.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 9:02AM onan said

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@milK What's not to get ? This mod was bringing attention back to a defunct game they poured their heart and souls into improving and that's simply unacceptable.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 11:46AM Courtney said

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@wcarnation

So why has he admitted, multiple times (even on his current blog that you link to below) that there were problems with originally giving people credit for their work.

And while they may have been overreacting to some extent, it's perfectly reasonable to be angry when someone has taken and used your work without asking you and without giving you credit, even if it might be perfectly legal to do so.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:36PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@Courtney

Because he might not have included every single person in the credit?

Ah-dur.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 3:20AM wcarnation said

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The mod came back and has new versions coming out

http://morrowind2011.ultimaaiera.com/

He also posted his own dissertations on the legality issues. Needless to say, it's about the same as this.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 3:56AM Invigilator said

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If you make a mod, you don't really own it and can't do much if someone else uses it. You have to rely on them being respectful of your creation...and yeah, on the internet, people aren't.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 10:39AM Arenovalis said

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@Invigilator Yes you do for the most part, doesn't obviously go for things like tweaking the game's stats or scripts, but if you create new art assets for your mod, who else owns that than the person who made them?
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:09AM RedViv said

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Does it matter if it's legal? It's just common courtesy to tell the mod creators what you plan to do with what they have spent many, many hours, days, weeks, months of their lives on.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 8:15AM wcarnation said

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@RedViv A breach of common courtesy doesn't mean you get his internet revoked and threaten him with lawsuits, all of which are a guise for an overinflated sense of self-worth over a videogame mod.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 11:14AM StickyKrippy said

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@RedViv If what this guy did is wrong, then I don't want to be right. Also, it does matter if it's legal when people start getting accused of illegal acts.

You have now been exposed to the magic of logic.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 12:14PM RedViv said

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I didn't say that those people reacted rationally, did I? Those few individuals did have to take out the sledgehammer for nut cracking duties, that is for sure.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:37PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@RedViv

No they didn't.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 9:56AM PR0F3TA said

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i like reading LGJ and i hope we get more soon. Maybe a Sony vs. Geo even tho we already know where that road leads;

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 10:21AM Lerkero said

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I love reading LGJ. I'd love it if Joystiq had more features like this that felt like actual journalism.

I didn't even know about this mod situation before reading this article, but now I am interested in the outcome.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 11:51AM ShadowXIII said

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...I sure wish they would take the same damn initiative to patch Fallout New Vegas....ya know...since it crashes or worse every damn 30 minutes....give or take...

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 12:27PM Arenovalis said

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@ShadowXIII

I haven't had any crashes with it, must be your hardware/software.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:38PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@ShadowXIII

Because making patches for a completely different game they didn't make is the responsibility of a group of people who made some mods for one game.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 12:30PM kysezenith said

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I think it's sad that modders, who love these games, can't forgive and forget after they guy adds props for all of them. They are a community that loves to improve games, they should all be working together to make a good game great. I'm just bummed I didn't get it before it went down. I loved morrowind, only the attack scheme was bad, (die rolls aren't good for games like that)

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 12:34PM wcarnation said

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@kysezenith On the contrary, I like dice rolls in my Role Playing Games.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 1:25PM Darkelfguy said

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Ugh, so much hate and ignorance directed at my favorite community in this thread! Good grief, no offense to anyone here, but none of you really know how are community works. The Morrowind Modding community has been built on the foundation of courtesy and respect, we never steal each other’s works (and those that do often face a massive backlash from the community) and we always try to give credit where it’s due. Modders spend dozens, if not hundreds of hours developing mods, FOR FREE, so others might enjoy them. All we ask in return is respect and courtesy for our works, that means asking for permission before merging it into a compilation or re-uploading it somewhere else and giving credit. I don’t care how long he spent on his documentation and merging everything into one compilation, there’s no way he spent as much time on it as all of the individual modders whose content he took (which again, he took WITHOUT permission or even credits (though the latter bit has since been rectified)). And what’s really sad about this entire situation is that if he had asked, almost everyone would have been willing to give him permission to use their mods. To the eyes of the community, with no requests for permission or credits given to the proper authors, he essentially STOLE the works of dozens of modders, which is just unacceptable. While I think the claims of “illegal” are a bit silly in this case, I still fully support the community’s actions here, because it’s important for us, as a small community, to stand united in support of our fellow modders who were wronged.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 10:17PM wcarnation said

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@Darkelfguy That's a whole lotta words for me to say DEAL WITH IT to
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 1:36PM gatotsu911 said

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Wait a minute, Joystiq has columns now?

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:05PM 30yearGamer said

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I'm still confused that something could be derivative while not being created by the same author as the original material.

And yes Darkelfguy, he definitely should have asked permission.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 2:08PM SpideyBR said

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This is the internet. You make something for free, you let people use your work for free. That's just a bunch of modders wanting some attention, even though that attention will grant nothing to them.
BS all the way.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 5:45PM gatotsu911 said

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@SpideyBR
This is the Internet. You make something for PROFIT, and people will distribute it for free because they can. I wonder how many of these modders have pirated games from professional developers?
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 5:52PM SpideyBR said

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@gatotsu911 Touché.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 4:48PM Sleaker said

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The mod creator explicitly stated that he is working on another version.. And that he did take down the link, but it is freely available on torrents still.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 6:33PM lowey said

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"And what’s really sad about this entire situation is that if he had asked, almost everyone would have been willing to give him permission to use their mods."

Given the mass hysteria the modders are in over this, I somehow doubt they're the kind of people who would ever agree to someone making this pack regardless of whether permission was asked for (and that is of course their right...although legally their right? i'm not so sure).

Sure they deserve credit for their work, I dont think anyone would deny them that, but to start throwing things around like "this is illegal!" and getting the guys internet cut off, they lose all sympathy with me. The guy made a mistake not asking for permission but corrected it as soon as they said something. I'm sure given the effort put in, he equally loves the game and actually has respect for the modders enough to use their mods ("stealing" their work may be a weird way of showing it, but he obviously does).

The modders can carry on marching the village with their pitchforks though, it's clearly doing nothing but harming their reputation more than his.

Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:23PM Darkelfguy said

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@lowey

"Given the mass hysteria the modders are in over this, I somehow doubt they're the kind of people who would ever agree to someone making this pack regardless of whether permission was asked for (and that is of course their right...although legally their right? i'm not so sure)."

Doubt no longer: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1158688-betawipz-morrowind-overhaul-sounds-graphics-2/ - This is another 2011 compilation using many of the same mods, with full permission and the backing of the community.

As for the "this is illegal" stuff that's been flying around, I believe that's mostly to do with the number of original meshes, textures, sounds, and so forth that were used in Tyler's compilation. Contrary to LGJ's belief, some modders do copyright that stuff (which you can usually find in the Read Me file or the author's website). It's also important to note that many mod Read Me's also include a section saying explicitly "Do not re-upload or use in another mod without permission". Download a few mods and look at the Read Me files, you can usually find something to that extent most of the time. Though I will admit that some members of the community took things to a bit of an extreme (I'm still confused how they even managed to get the guy's internet cut off....).

"The modders can carry on marching the village with their pitchforks though, it's clearly doing nothing but harming their reputation more than his."

That's just it, most of us already put down our pitchforks, the community mostly wants to get past this. Heck, even bringing up the topic at the Bethesda forums is a ban-able offense. It's everyone else that needs to put down their pitchforks. Look at the number of negative comments in this thread! Most of these people are attacking the modders for no good reason, they've never played one of these mods before, and more likely they've never made a mod themselves. The guy made a mistake, yes, probably it was just a silly newbie mistake, but the community has never before had such a massive issue like this. Has this sort of thing happened before? Absolutely. But to this scale, involving dozens of mods and authors? No. So things got a little out of hand, it happens. But it's pretty much over now, aside from some lingering effects. So really, people need to stop harping this ridiculous negative image of the modders involved and move on. There's still going to be a Morrowind 2011 mod, this time through the proper channels, and modders are still going to make more mods and improvements for the game, so why bother hating on the people that are giving you this stuff for free?
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 7:42PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@Darkelfguy

He didn't make any mistakes.

The morrowind modding community is just a group of egotistical narcissists.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 8:17PM Darkelfguy said

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@This Little Man Says His Name Is

He didn't make any mistakes? So he meant to steal other people's work? That's pretty much what you're saying there, which actually doesn't color him in a good light. And I doubt he actually meant to do that.

"The morrowind modding community is just a group of egotistical narcissists."

And your supporting evidence for this is? I'm sorry, but again, must I point out that modders spend a considerable amount of their time creating content, at no cost to you, for the community? All they ask for is recognition for their work, how in the nine hells is that being egotistical? Some modders don't even care, and you know how you can usually find out? Read the bloody "Read Me", it usually states any restrictions the author might have on using their work. Your comment means nothing, you probably don't even have any prior experience with the community, you're basing your argument off of one incident in the last TEN YEARS that the community has existed. No doubt you've been influenced by these ridiculously biased articles here on Joystiq and elsewhere. Don't judge a community based on one poorly-reported incident.
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Posted: Jan 23rd 2011 7:28AM Faenix said

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@Darkelfguy

I surely hope you know they cant LEGALLY sell mods, right?

So "For free" is all they can do.
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Posted: Jan 22nd 2011 6:41PM H4rdc0rr said

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Here's what I don't understand... These modders who had their creations used in this 2011 package were distributing their mod to anyone who wanted them... for free. These guys are not making any monetary profit, so why is it a problem if their mods are used without their permission? Why make these mods if you're not going to let anyone else use them or even let others help to evolve them?

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