Sony to support homebrew with Linux on PS3

"23. Has nobody here been gaming for more than 5 years? This is exactly what Sony announced for the PS2.

Why? Because it allows them to classify PS2/PS3 as a general purpose computing device, rather than a toy, which lessens some of their export tax liabilities.

They are just as interested now in supporting the homebrew development community as they were five years ago. Which is to say, not at all."

Thank you Copa for stating a very good point. This is a tax move. They tried it with the PS2, and they are going to do it again with the PS3. We will see what happens.

You know, there have been some extremely intelligent comments here, and some downright nonsense. Should anyone run out and buy a PS3 because it has linux? No, that would be a silly way to spend your money. Does it mean from the outset that there will be a greater deal of flexibility on the platform out of the box than would be otherwise, absolutely. Is it premature to call Sony a liar, and call their OS setup crap? Yup. Just as it's premature to hail it as the all out savior of console gaming.

This console generation has been extremely divisive. Both Sony and Microsoft are very intelligent companies, and both make decisions and take risks based on where they see the market going, not where it is. Putting linux on the ps3 is more than a clever way to allow homebrew, it's a necessary insurance policy to ensure some amount of interoperability with their console and other networked platforms. (i.e. making sure they're competitive with the 360/vista jaugernaut) beyond that, we're just going to have to wait and see what they come up with to utilize the power of a truly next gen gaming centric linux box.

that is true... Ipods are so expensive, 100's of dollers, overpriced, yet millions buy them... a 60gig ipod video retail is like $400 bucks! There wont be a shortage of people willing to buy playstations. But there will be those who will have to wait until price drops.

people say they shot themselvs in the foot... not yet, the gun is cocked and loaded though... The "trigger" is the success of blu-ray.

Sony will still be the next gen market leader based on name recagnition alone, but by a much smaller margin. There are over twice as many PS2's in the world than there are gamecubes and xbox's combined. Im guessing wii's & 360's combined will = PS3's in 5 years or so

Ugh...I think what people are missing here is that...we all have computers. Most Joe Shmoe idgits have computers now. Computers that can do everything the PS3 can do, only better.

I don't want a computer with a gaming console functionality. I want a gaming console..period. I don't want to store my damn mp3's on it, and I don't want to store my pics on it--all that and more is what my computer is for...All I want my playstation 3 to do is play PS games on it.

History has shown that when a company has been top dog for 2 generations...they tend to get super cocky and suddenly forget what people want, and instead give them what the company thinks they want---which is always wrong. Nintendo did it, Sega did it, now Sony is doing it.

Some fanboys and girls seem to miss the point. Having everything but the kitchen sink in a console will not justify the price. This is because the consumers that will decide if the PS3 wins the next gen, only want one function--play games. Joe consumer only wants to play games, he/she sees $600---what do you think will happen? Does Joe even know what blu-ray IS?!--Do they even know what Linux IS considering most computers are made with Windows.

All of the other functions of the PS3 are just the result of an international technology company saying "hey look what else my company makes--buy this too because you need it."

"The question is, will mainstream consumers ignore this key feature?"

Of course they will. The vast, vast majority of mainstream consumers don't know what Linux is, let alone how its inclusion on their PlayStation will benefit them.

I'd be fairly certain that running homebrew apps won't be as easy as slapping a disc into the drive and pressing "Start" either - and anything much mroe complex than that, Johnny Casual isn't going to bother with.

"28. Okay, to everybody to think its hypocritical for Sony to block homebrew on the PSP and then encourage it on the PS3, here is why you're stupid"

So do you like to insult people or you just need love?

I think this could provide a shot in the arm the games console scene really needs -a bit of Indie programming magic, just like the good old days when people used to make really creative & addictively playable games on their Commodre 64's & ZX Spectrum's. I think this could lead to some very innovative stuff that we all (Laymen & teckies) will be able to enjoy via downloadable freeware.

Also if Sony sells 100 million PS3's over the next 5 years, that can only be good for Linux, which may enable them to break Microsoft unfair monopoly of the OS Market.

Can I just say to the ppl who keep moaning about the price. For $600 you get a machine that does what a $3500 to $4000 Alienware PC can do & its a Blu-Ray player -what more do you want!
Apart from it looking a bit too much like the George Forman Grill the PS3 is in my honest opinion the best console in terms of bells & whistles - when I buy something I dont go for second best, I always want the best out there & I think the PS3 is the best. That is why I am saving like a bugger & not wasting my money on a Xbox 360.

So, you're going to use linux on your PS3 to play nintendo games?

Lets do the math here. You're going to spend 600 on a machine, wait for someone to port a decent SET of emulators to it (nes, snes n64, genesis, TG16, cube, xbox), then attempt to use it to play and do everything under the sun,

Or you could buy a 360, a Wii, and with all the money you save, download all the VC games you want.

Now which do you think is easier and more economical?

Just because it CAN do something, doesn't mean it should, and it definitely doesn't justify the price point in the eye of the AVERAGE consumer.

Sony hasn't really marketed it yet because it will have some implications for them in the b2b world, especially with Microsoft. PS3 actually has 2 bootable operating systems, XMB and PS3 Linux--a functioning Linux/Lindows environment that is akin to any other personal computer running Linux. This of course means anyone can dabble with homebrew apps and games, but more interestingly...the PS3 can be used as a cheap PC replacement for many people--not something Microsoft is going to be happy about. It can install any application you could on any other Linux box--including opensource application suites, sdks, web browsers, messengers, etc. etc. You can use any peripheral you can in a normal Linux environment through the installation of drivers--this includes keyboards, mice, printers, scanners, fax, digital cameras, etc. This is all possible out of the box--not just for licensed developers. Some of us ;) have already even had a sneak peak at what's coming.

Cookiepuss's gonna buy the ps3 and download the emulator for the 360, all nes games and the wii. That way cookie can get the best games and still play blooooo-rayyyyy yeahhhh. Cookie puss is happy.

cookiepuss is a moron

But like the ps3 cookiepuss is so yummy yeahhhhhh.

I agree with the "shot in the arm" comment... I think an open platform like linux could open the door for a much more robust xbla environment, that really supports indie developers pushing content to the marketplace. I mean, I love my 360, but I've been waiting how long for them to port SF2 onto xbla... and the first new content in weeks is Uno??!??!

Lets see. Nintendo is probably gonna charge up the butt for their old games. (Original Mario on GBA for $20!) So yeah, I will save money by buying a PS3.

56. "28. Okay, to everybody to think its hypocritical for Sony to block homebrew on the PSP and then encourage it on the PS3, here is why you're stupid

So do you like to insult people or you just need love?"

A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.

The question is, will mainstream consumers ignore this key feature?

YES.

The only people who care about linux support, are the same people who can make linux work on whatever the hell they want. These are the same people who can run linux on an XBOX. Sony saying they are supporting linux is like them saying they support hacking of there console. The average consumer doesn't know what linux is. This isn't even a "key feature" in my opinion.

Hmm...why would sony say they support linux? Perhaps could it be that they are bit bitter against Apple and Microsoft. Apple made fun of the cell processor, turned it down and went with intel (wise choice) and we all know why they don't like MS. Whatever, this is just more marketing garbage.

Tell the average consumer that the PS3 runs linux, and the average response will be...what's linux?

i like the comparison between a 60G ipod and ps3.

HIt the nail right in.

The difference? Apple did the right spin, and so far Sony has not!

Actually, this is quite cool. Especially if existing linux game code is easily portable to the PS3 kernel.

Granted, I'm still not getting a PS3 until about 2008, purely because of finances, but I'm hoping that this is still in by the time I get one. I have a fear this will be nuked from orbit if people start creating stuff like DeCSS and PS1/PS2 softmods that are bootable through the OS.

"In terms of access to the PlayStation 2 hardware and libraries, Linux (for PlayStation 2) offers an almost identical set of functionality to that provided to licensed game developers. In fact the system manuals provided with the Linux kit have identical content to 6 of the 7 system manuals provided to licensed developers. The missing information which is provided to licensed developers and not to users of Linux (for PlayStation 2) describes the hardware that controls the CD/DVD-ROM, SPU2 Audio chip and other IO peripheral control hardware. This hardware functionality is still available for use with the linux kit through a software interface called the Runtime Environment. "
-- http://playstation2-linux.com/faq.php

I suspect the same thing on PS3. It will have all the documentation and functionality of a "real" PS3 SDK, but perhaps lacking in a few areas.

well emulator on PS3 could kill the virtual console on Wii ;.(

dont forget this isnt your pc, this is hardware which every single ps3 owner has the exact same specs. and this is isnt any pc either, a pc with quite a few cores and a 512 mb ram, 256mb which is faster than any other ram available today.

im pretty sure u wil see ps2 emulators come out for it, and it wont be like pc where u download differnt plugins for different cards - u have one software package which works with every ps3.

im not exactly sure how easy it wil be, if they have a direcoty on the hard drive which works with the standard ps3 dash board and u put your games and stuf there, it wil b ok. if its the linux operating system then i dont no, will it take time to boot and that.

the ps3 is gonna b alot like the psp, a hot gadget which u can do alot of stuf with. the best 2 consoles are definately ps3 and wii without a doubt.

i cant believe they call it a hd-dvd add on for 360 when it goes up to 1080i. i believe high definition really is 1080p?

yeah right...

few years later, due to rampant piracy issues, they will block homebrew programs, just like they did with PSP.

and then they will ask you to download the latest firmware, in order to play the latest games...

I'll be waiting for PS3 just because it has Linux, and now beter yet: it alows any one to develop software for it.
I think that only some linux/open source daily users can see the real value of PS3 being open source "compatible".
Does any one use Firefox? Or would you prefer waiting for MS to release IE7 for PS3?
Or you don't realy want any web browser on your PS3?
What if you also get a full Office suit for free?
Using high resolution, it all makes sense.. PDF reader, Powerpoints, mail reader, media player, text editor, video conference...
Imagine milions of developers around the world helping your 7 SPE's to have a new breath? who in their perfect mind woldn't want it? Uma Terman?

Yeesh, I really don't understand you people sometimes.

Sony have been telling us for, what, a year now that the PS3 was going to be expensive. And then you all act like they've dropped a bomb or something!

If you think it's too expensive, DON'T BUY ONE. I don't care. Sony doesn't care. NO ONE cares!! Just because you don't think it's worth it, doesn't mean that there aren't millions of people out there who think it is.

Consoles have always launched at a high price point, and the few that haven't (GameCube) hardly performed better because of it.

When I look back to the PS2 launch, the console WAS expensive and the software lineup lacked anything that appealed to me. Fast forward a few years to a completely reversed scenario - good price, large selection of great games.

So give it a rest already! No one is going to lose any sleep over hearing that you're not buying a PS3. If you were to get ANY reaction it'd be the early adopters clapping their hands with glee that they don't have to listen to your whinging when they're stuck behind you in the queue on launch day.

I'll translate this announcement

"aaarargggghhh we've got to get to market FAST arrrrggghhhh what we going to do we haven't the time for proper security! Who's stupid idea was it to use Linux anyway everyone will be able to hack it aaarrrggghh! Lets just support anyway so we can attempt to control it!"

The New Revelation:
Ouch, misinformation overload there.

"the inclusion of a Blu-Ray player alone more than justifies the cost of the PS3 for me."
Doesn't that depend on 1) The *quality* of the Blu-Ray player? And the amount of content available for the format? As it is *right now*, it doesn't seem like a very good bargain, since you basically can't get any Blu-Ray movies. In a year, it might be more useful. Or it might not. It's not guaranteed that the format will catch on. Betamax ring any bells? Or UMD for that matter. Minidisc? Or about a dozen of Sony's other proprietary formats for this and that?

"And the fact that it will be open-source and run Linux is icing on the cake."
It's not open source at all. Try reading the article again. No access to SDK's, documentation or anything else. And you can get Linux running on an Ipod. What does that prove?

"With the use of the Cell, what you're now getting is PC with the fastest prcoessor available"
No you're not. You're getting a PC with the fastest DSP processor available. But it's also among the slowest general-purpose processors. And requires heavily tweaked code that's extremely graphics/physics heavy to be more than average for games. If you're looking for stuff like AI or just plain gameplay, the Cell's shortcomings come into play. It just isn't good at general purpose stuff.

"for only $499-$599."
For only the price of an average PC, you get... Uh, an average PC with less support for "homebrew" development. A bargain.

"The PS3 only has 256MB+256MB or RAM, but Linux has a relatively small footprint in memory so RAM is not a big issue."
That depends on the version of Linux, and it is an issue if you want to run more than one or two applications. There's no swap file or anything. And if you only want to run one app at a time, what do you need an OS for?

"Sony stated originally its intention to run Mac OS X on the platform."
HAHAHHAAAHHA, please, don't tell me anyone falls for that stuff? Yes, it'll also be the fastest supercomputer on the face of the Earth, because Sony said so. And so was the PS2. And you know, it'll run all your Windows games too. No, here's a surprise for you. Mac OSX is not going to run on PS3, for a dozen very good reasons, ranging from hardware incompatibility to the lack of several features that'd make it useful, to the fact that it's owned by Apple, and they're feeling very protective of it.

If you're going to be a Sony fanboy, at least do it with the few facts you have on your side. If you want to argue for the superiority of PS3, your best bet is to say "It's Playstation. People will buy it". Because Sony has more or less thrown away every other advantage they might have had by now.

Ace: Oh please, do you always trust what Sony's marketing people tells you?

"Sony didn't want to lose that title, so they built a supermachine crammed with the very latest technology. They had no choice but to put the price up that high."
Sure they did. They could choose to lose more money per console. Or they could have chosen to cram it with the technology needed for a good console, no more no less. That's what Microsoft did. They got an equally powerful console, at half the price (at a rough guess on manufactoring costs)

"Even tho the graphics card is more than twice as powerful as some of the most powerful one's out now"
You mean its Geforce 7900 GT? Yes, I can't believe we don't have anything like that on PC's. Or on Xbox 360.
It is just a 7900, nothing more. If you want to praise Sony, the graphics chip is the last place to look. Sure, it's fast, but it's not unique, and it's not even made for PS3. It's a PC chip that's been adapted in a hurry.
The 360 has a far more advanced and better integrated graphics chip.

And its CPU is nothing special either. *Unless* you plan to decode a dozen streams of audio/video.
For general purpose computations, it's slow and needlessly difficult to program for. And games largely fall into that category, although they can be tweaked to leverage *some* of its strengths.

"standard wireless controllers, bluetooth, Blu-ray, Linux, wireless internet"
Wireless controllers? Like the 360, you mean? Shocking. How revolutionary. Blu-Ray? Sony's proprietary format that so far has zero content available? If it becomes the standard, it'll be useful. Until then? Who cares? Wireless internet? So has my old laptop. Again, big deal.

"photo-realistic games"
Oooh, you mean the prerendered demos they showed? Or maybe you're referring to Sony saying "We will have photo-realistic games", just like they said with PS2 and PS1?
The *actual* ingame graphics are nothing special. Nothing a real high-end PC can't handle. And nothing the 360 can't handle.

"and the list goes on."
Please continue then. So far, you've listed only "Sony has promised me that it'll be so good"-features and a few features that the 360 has already. When do we get to the actual *advantages*?

"I have read everything and always check updates... I see nothing wrong with this machine."
Apparently you haven't. If you had, you'd have read about how big game developers are complaining about it being hard to develop on, about how it's no more powerful than the 360, how the Cell just isn't suited for games, how Blu-Ray becoming standard is so far nothing more than wistful thinking on Sony's behalf, and how most of the "features" it promise are related to coming up with new forms of DRM. How, if you don't have a HDMI-capable TV, the output resolution will be scaled down. How they basically licensed a standard PC GPU to act as graphics card. How games that were presented as "Look at these graphics, only the PS3 will be powerful enough to run this", turned out to a) be prerendered, and b) be ported to 360 with *no* changes to the graphics.

"Just think you will need to install an Anti Virus/SPAM/firewall so hackers can't brick your PS3 now. Open source is great but leave it for the PC, I would sooner use a "PLAY"STATION to "PLAY" games instead."
Uhm, no. This is Linux, not Windows.

Nobody has mentioned that the Atari 2600 was $199 at launch, thats equivalent to about $650 in todays money. Its called inflation :)
$600 is about right for a console at launch it seems. It didn't hurt the Atari 2600

I don't know why people are freaking out over the price. I mean it comes with a Blu-Ray player, DVD's, ps2, ps1, and PS3 functionality. I mean it also shows your darn photos and crap thought the memory card reader. How much more could you get for all that.
Lets do a little math,

Blu-Ray Player = 500+ dollars
PS2 = 150 dollars
PS1 = 50 Dollars
DVD Player = 25 dollars

Thats 725 dollars worth of technology without
including the ability to play PS3 games in 1080p! Quit your wining and save up some damn money.

lmao at all the people crying.all this ps3 hate is only coming from people who are too poor to buy it."i cant afford to buy it so im gonna say it sucks".jealousy sucks huh hahahahahahaha

I wonder how PS3 sales are going to be, since Xbox360 beat them to the market and stealing market share.

With all the buzz of the 'user generated' business model, maybe it'd be a good idea to let anyone make their own video game. Kinda like, video game eBay or something.

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