Team Meat explains what went wrong with WiiWare's Super Meat Boy
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If Super Meat Boy were to launch on WiiWare today, it would have no leaderboards, no Dark World levels and no support for downloadable additions. Boss fights and cutscenes would have no musical accompaniment, and only six music tracks (including just one for retro-themed levels) would be present. In the words of designer Edmund McMillen, it would be "a piece of shit version of Super Meat Boy."
When McMillen and programmer Tommy Refenes, who together form Team Meat, tested a version of their loopy platformer that could fit under the (previously disputed) 40MB file-size limit imposed by Nintendo's WiiWare service, they weren't satisfied with the compromises and decided to cancel it. "There is no way to avoid the fact that if we released a 40MB version of Super Meat Boy it would be a shit version of the game," McMillen told Joystiq. "It's a lose lose situation, but the fact of the matter is if we release a shitty game, we will have to live with that for the rest of our careers and have to cop to the fact that it is a shitty game."
Having grown in size and ambition since it was announced for WiiWare in early 2009, the Super Meat Boy of today would have to shed several features -- picked up on the way to Xbox Live Arcade, PC and Mac -- before it could circle back to Wii. Team Meat wasn't going to budge and, contrary to their early assumption, neither was Nintendo.
"We knew of the limits early on but overestimated our ability to get Nintendo to raise the file size," McMillen said. "It's lame that there is a 40MB cap on WiiWare games ... but it was our fault for blindly assuming this cap wasn't set in stone, and we are sorry for that." McMillen added that the team's finances would take a hit after the file-size showdown, but it wouldn't wither their support of Nintendo platforms in the future.
Team Meat has sought some breathing room on a Wii retail disc, but at least three publishers find third-party success stories a bit too rare. "We assumed our options would be good, and they might get better now that we have won some awards," McMillen said. "Right now we have talked to three larger publishers who have passed on the title because they believe Wii retail is a bad idea profit wise. Most places we have talked to believe that only Nintendo brand games sell well on their system and don't even understand why we want to release Wii retail." McMillen and Refenes will still stalk some smaller publishers, but have expressed concern over the attitudes they've encountered thus far.
There'll be plenty of attitude coming at them from disappointed day-one fans, but McMillen believes they'll understand or play the game on a different platform. And take this advice about assumptions: "Don't let this or the fact that SMB isnt releasing on PS3 or Wiiware fool you into thinking we don't [love] Sony or Nintendo, we love them all," he said. "If we had the ability the game would be released on ALL systems, but it just doesn't seem like that was in the cards this time."
When asked if Super Meat Boy's problematic squishing crisis could have been foreseen back in 2009, Edmund gave us this answer: "Probably, honestly we got so lost in making a cool game we totally forgot about how strict the limitations for the Wii were, we just wanted to make something huge and the game got a little out of control." It's that out-of-control nature -- regardless of WiiWare's limitations -- that has made Super Meat Boy a favorite among critics in 2010.
When McMillen and programmer Tommy Refenes, who together form Team Meat, tested a version of their loopy platformer that could fit under the (previously disputed) 40MB file-size limit imposed by Nintendo's WiiWare service, they weren't satisfied with the compromises and decided to cancel it. "There is no way to avoid the fact that if we released a 40MB version of Super Meat Boy it would be a shit version of the game," McMillen told Joystiq. "It's a lose lose situation, but the fact of the matter is if we release a shitty game, we will have to live with that for the rest of our careers and have to cop to the fact that it is a shitty game."
Having grown in size and ambition since it was announced for WiiWare in early 2009, the Super Meat Boy of today would have to shed several features -- picked up on the way to Xbox Live Arcade, PC and Mac -- before it could circle back to Wii. Team Meat wasn't going to budge and, contrary to their early assumption, neither was Nintendo.
"We knew of the limits early on but overestimated our ability to get Nintendo to raise the file size," McMillen said. "It's lame that there is a 40MB cap on WiiWare games ... but it was our fault for blindly assuming this cap wasn't set in stone, and we are sorry for that." McMillen added that the team's finances would take a hit after the file-size showdown, but it wouldn't wither their support of Nintendo platforms in the future.
Team Meat has sought some breathing room on a Wii retail disc, but at least three publishers find third-party success stories a bit too rare. "We assumed our options would be good, and they might get better now that we have won some awards," McMillen said. "Right now we have talked to three larger publishers who have passed on the title because they believe Wii retail is a bad idea profit wise. Most places we have talked to believe that only Nintendo brand games sell well on their system and don't even understand why we want to release Wii retail." McMillen and Refenes will still stalk some smaller publishers, but have expressed concern over the attitudes they've encountered thus far.
There'll be plenty of attitude coming at them from disappointed day-one fans, but McMillen believes they'll understand or play the game on a different platform. And take this advice about assumptions: "Don't let this or the fact that SMB isnt releasing on PS3 or Wiiware fool you into thinking we don't [love] Sony or Nintendo, we love them all," he said. "If we had the ability the game would be released on ALL systems, but it just doesn't seem like that was in the cards this time."
When asked if Super Meat Boy's problematic squishing crisis could have been foreseen back in 2009, Edmund gave us this answer: "Probably, honestly we got so lost in making a cool game we totally forgot about how strict the limitations for the Wii were, we just wanted to make something huge and the game got a little out of control." It's that out-of-control nature -- regardless of WiiWare's limitations -- that has made Super Meat Boy a favorite among critics in 2010.
Reader Comments (66)
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:07PM Wintrale said
Oh, that's awesome. A developer that won't port their game to every possible medium just to cash in on the popularity? Who'dathunk there existed such a thing any more?
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 11:15PM LittleMofreaky said
@Wintrale They aren't porting it to the Wii because they respect their fans intelligence and sense of quality, dumbass.
Reply
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:10PM Fillem said
So what or who is holding back a PS3 release then?
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 6:05PM Liquidfingers said
@Entegy
why did you get downvoted? it's true...read the same thing in an interview.
Reply
why did you get downvoted? it's true...read the same thing in an interview.
Posted: Dec 26th 2010 1:35AM Tachyonic Cargo said
@Demaar Or they could just pick up an Xbox 360.
I know a lot of fanboys on both sides of the fence make all manner of silly fussing about why "the other system" sucks, but I have owned every console to come out this gen since launch, and the only one that I have ever regretted owning was the Wii. And even then, Wii still has it's moments when I am sooooooooooooooooooooo glad that I own one.
My point is, what bit of hardware a game is running on, should never be a reason/excuse why a gamer should not get the game he/she wants to play. With any console generation, we already know that for whatever reasons, there is always going to be so many exclusives per console - that's just the nature of the business. I think people who really like to play games, once they get over that fact, and get over the fact and decide that it's the games they care about, not the companies making the games, or the consoles the games are on, then going multi-platform becomes a no brainer.
I have not looked at a console generation since the Genesis came out in 1989, with the jaded eyes that I am only going to get one console, because magically, it's supposed to be "better" than any of the others. And yes I understand that consoles cost money, but then that's what jobs are for. If gamers really wanted to save money on their hobby, then they'd all just rent their games from Gamefly for $25/month and play as many games as they like, instead of buying them all for $60 each. And trust me, the money you'd save in a year, many of us could easily buy every system and still have a pocket full of cash left over at the end of the year.
I may be alone in this, but I am never going to allow the day to happen when what console I bought determines which games I am allowed to play. Even when I was poor, broke and did not have a penny to my name back at college, I still found a way to get a Genesis, a SNES, a Turbo Grafx 16 and a NeoGeo Gold. I just had to get smart about how I went about doing things. No one else in my dorm had either system, so I charged a cover to get into my room and use my consoles, and then funneled the money into my gaming. My point being, that I'm not letting anything as arbitrary as an exclusive title determine what games I can and/or cannot play. Be it Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, Super Mario Galaxy 3, or in this case, Super Meat Boy (which is an awesome game BTW), if it's out there and it's good, and it's on a console, then it's mine.
Reply
I know a lot of fanboys on both sides of the fence make all manner of silly fussing about why "the other system" sucks, but I have owned every console to come out this gen since launch, and the only one that I have ever regretted owning was the Wii. And even then, Wii still has it's moments when I am sooooooooooooooooooooo glad that I own one.
My point is, what bit of hardware a game is running on, should never be a reason/excuse why a gamer should not get the game he/she wants to play. With any console generation, we already know that for whatever reasons, there is always going to be so many exclusives per console - that's just the nature of the business. I think people who really like to play games, once they get over that fact, and get over the fact and decide that it's the games they care about, not the companies making the games, or the consoles the games are on, then going multi-platform becomes a no brainer.
I have not looked at a console generation since the Genesis came out in 1989, with the jaded eyes that I am only going to get one console, because magically, it's supposed to be "better" than any of the others. And yes I understand that consoles cost money, but then that's what jobs are for. If gamers really wanted to save money on their hobby, then they'd all just rent their games from Gamefly for $25/month and play as many games as they like, instead of buying them all for $60 each. And trust me, the money you'd save in a year, many of us could easily buy every system and still have a pocket full of cash left over at the end of the year.
I may be alone in this, but I am never going to allow the day to happen when what console I bought determines which games I am allowed to play. Even when I was poor, broke and did not have a penny to my name back at college, I still found a way to get a Genesis, a SNES, a Turbo Grafx 16 and a NeoGeo Gold. I just had to get smart about how I went about doing things. No one else in my dorm had either system, so I charged a cover to get into my room and use my consoles, and then funneled the money into my gaming. My point being, that I'm not letting anything as arbitrary as an exclusive title determine what games I can and/or cannot play. Be it Gears of War 3, Uncharted 3, Super Mario Galaxy 3, or in this case, Super Meat Boy (which is an awesome game BTW), if it's out there and it's good, and it's on a console, then it's mine.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:13PM whymog said
Shitty! But at least there are some non-shitty versions out there on other platforms. At least these guys genuinely give a shit about getting their game out to as many people as possible without, um, doing a poor job of it.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:20PM MyLittleHero said
This is f'ing B.S! People seem to forget that Nintendo went up to these guys to make the game! Also, SMB was being developed first for WiiWare , yet, we get nothing! If it wasn't for Nintendo, SMB would not exist! In additon to all that, why in the world would they overdeveloped the game if they were making it for the Wii first? Hmmmm, his explanation makes no sense and it's a smack to face to the company that saw your product and saw great promises in it.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:40PM Androu1 said
@MyLittleHero They have said on their twitter that they weren't making it for Wiiware exclusively or anything like that, just that Nintendo was the first to announce it.
Plus, why would they have to limit themselves making a lame game just because of a stupid limitation?
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Plus, why would they have to limit themselves making a lame game just because of a stupid limitation?
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:54PM SSUK said
@MyLittleHero
They were under the assumption that the Wii's 40mb limit was a limit, but there was some leeway. There was not.
So as they continued to develop the game, things got out of hand and suddenly, they realised that no matter how much optimisation they did, they wouldn't fit the whole game into 40mb. Let me put 40mb into perspective for you; that's 28 floppy disks, 5% of a standard 700mb CD-ROM, 0.83% of a standard 4.7GB DVD-ROM or 0.00004% of my porn collection.
So how about this, rather than bitch about it, why not just go get the PC version, connect a Wii remote to your PC with a USB dongle you can pick up for a few dollars and use Glovepie to map buttons and be damn happy. Oh and it's half price on Steam at the moment, so... You know. Do that.
Reply
They were under the assumption that the Wii's 40mb limit was a limit, but there was some leeway. There was not.
So as they continued to develop the game, things got out of hand and suddenly, they realised that no matter how much optimisation they did, they wouldn't fit the whole game into 40mb. Let me put 40mb into perspective for you; that's 28 floppy disks, 5% of a standard 700mb CD-ROM, 0.83% of a standard 4.7GB DVD-ROM or 0.00004% of my porn collection.
So how about this, rather than bitch about it, why not just go get the PC version, connect a Wii remote to your PC with a USB dongle you can pick up for a few dollars and use Glovepie to map buttons and be damn happy. Oh and it's half price on Steam at the moment, so... You know. Do that.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 6:49PM Josso said
@MyLittleHero
Sorry, but that is wrong in so many ways.
Nintendo didn't contact the about Super Meat Boy. They contacted "Team Meat" about another of their games: Aether.
Team Meat then started up on Super Meat Boy and send mails (and an early version of the game for each platform) to Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo which only Microsoft and Nintendo answered.
Nintendo didn't try to make any deals but was more like "meh – go ahead and make the game if you want to" whereas Microsoft could see the potential in Super Meat Boy and its success.
Microsoft made an exclusive deal with Team Meat, so that Super Meat Boy never could be released on the PSN.
So Microsoft are the only ones who have made an effort into getting the game on their platform.
SMB might not be released on the Wii because Nintendo didn't wanted to make any exception on the WiiWare filesize-limit nor did they want to spend any money on the funding of the game.
Sources:
https://twitter.com/#!/SuperMeatBoy/status/18419186048958464
https://twitter.com/#!/SuperMeatBoy/status/18419003961647104
http://www.psnstores.com/2010/07/quick-question-team-meat/
Reply
Sorry, but that is wrong in so many ways.
Nintendo didn't contact the about Super Meat Boy. They contacted "Team Meat" about another of their games: Aether.
Team Meat then started up on Super Meat Boy and send mails (and an early version of the game for each platform) to Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo which only Microsoft and Nintendo answered.
Nintendo didn't try to make any deals but was more like "meh – go ahead and make the game if you want to" whereas Microsoft could see the potential in Super Meat Boy and its success.
Microsoft made an exclusive deal with Team Meat, so that Super Meat Boy never could be released on the PSN.
So Microsoft are the only ones who have made an effort into getting the game on their platform.
SMB might not be released on the Wii because Nintendo didn't wanted to make any exception on the WiiWare filesize-limit nor did they want to spend any money on the funding of the game.
Sources:
https://twitter.com/#!/SuperMeatBoy/status/18419186048958464
https://twitter.com/#!/SuperMeatBoy/status/18419003961647104
http://www.psnstores.com/2010/07/quick-question-team-meat/
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:22PM JebusF said
I'd be more upset that MS tied them to 360 exclusively.
I'm no fanboy, but the fact remains that Sony allow user content to be shared on their system freely.
I'm no fanboy, but the fact remains that Sony allow user content to be shared on their system freely.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:42PM Androu1 said
@TMlord95 Um, yeah, it is partially MS's fault https://twitter.com/SuperMeatBoy/status/18065386889019392
Wouldn't have come to that if Sony hadn't passed it up first, tho, so yeah.
Reply
Wouldn't have come to that if Sony hadn't passed it up first, tho, so yeah.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:28PM TMlord95 said
Bravo, team meat.
This my new favorite Dev.
This my new favorite Dev.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:28PM (Unverified) said
And nintendo's stubborn attitude and lacking hardware cost them another game. :<
Much as I do love the Wii, and a lot of it's games, they need to pull themselves into this generation, dammit.
Much as I do love the Wii, and a lot of it's games, they need to pull themselves into this generation, dammit.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 10:49PM rowd149 said
@(Unverified) I like how people assume that Nintendo's the problem here. Couldn't possibly be that Team Meat isn't good enough (or doesn't give a shit about) optimizing their use of storage space. Nope, whenever a title is lacking technically, it's the console manufacturer's fault, not the coders', right?
Reply
Posted: Dec 25th 2010 6:05AM ZeroPayn said
@rowd149
I'm pretty sure that if you were in charge of making a game or some other form of art, you wouldn't want a dumbed down version of your hard work to be published. You would want the complete 100% package that you spent so much time and effort on to be released to the world.
Quit being so butthurt and just get it somewhere else.
Reply
I'm pretty sure that if you were in charge of making a game or some other form of art, you wouldn't want a dumbed down version of your hard work to be published. You would want the complete 100% package that you spent so much time and effort on to be released to the world.
Quit being so butthurt and just get it somewhere else.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:33PM Ratfoot said
Blame Nintendo for their godawful online yet again.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:44PM Androu1 said
So they don't wanna release it on Wiiware because it would a gimped version...
More devs should learn from this.
More devs should learn from this.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:49PM Artemis Entreri said
Way to go guys :D There's a reason everyone likes you, and that's it. Keep up the good work!
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 4:54PM adv2k169 said
I bet if it sold on a disk for $19.99 it would sell a good amount of copies.
Posted: Dec 25th 2010 12:38AM The Aquacharger said
@adv2k169
Problem is though that since publisher's never proplerlu supported the Wii it's gained a bad name. Now publishers see no reasont o release anything on the Wii then shovel ware, movie ports, or old game ports. Many great and unique Wii titles were cancled after many gamers were supet with titles having poor controls and many bugs in the game. And even now many great Wii games don't sell due to most people refusing to admit the Wii has good games, lack of advertisement, and many other problems. People just put the blame on Nintendo's lack of third party support when Sony and MS don't support third party's, they still have the support themselves. Other then what's new on XBL and PSN.
Reply
Problem is though that since publisher's never proplerlu supported the Wii it's gained a bad name. Now publishers see no reasont o release anything on the Wii then shovel ware, movie ports, or old game ports. Many great and unique Wii titles were cancled after many gamers were supet with titles having poor controls and many bugs in the game. And even now many great Wii games don't sell due to most people refusing to admit the Wii has good games, lack of advertisement, and many other problems. People just put the blame on Nintendo's lack of third party support when Sony and MS don't support third party's, they still have the support themselves. Other then what's new on XBL and PSN.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 5:36PM xFSUxBatman said
Xbox 360 just pwned Wii once again.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 5:37PM Tapejara said
Sucks for Wii owners, I purchased the XBLA version and love it. Hopefully some publisher will give it a retail release; I wouldn't mind purchasing it a second time.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 6:03PM GordoJones88 said
Team Meat should hook up with Gaijin and put all 6 Bit.Trip games and Super Meat Boy on a disc for Wii retail.
/begin massive upvoting
/begin massive upvoting
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 6:29PM InfinitiProject said
Nintendo should PUSH THE BUTTONS on raising the limit on downloadable games.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 6:58PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said
I like how the big publishers are just like yeah, you can't sell shit on the Wii if your name isn't Nintendo.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 7:45PM Oobgarm said
@videoseph
Dude, it's half off on Steam right now, $7.50.
Dude, it's half off on Steam right now, $7.50.
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 7:45PM ChaosBladez said
Then just put it on PSN and that will make me happy :)
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 7:51PM ipsum said
@videoseph
First of all, I really doubt that this was done with those intentions. It's more like they did everything they could right down to the very end, and finally gave up. I'm quite sure they didn't want to let their fans down, but ended up having no choice.
Second, why wouldn't you buy Super Meat Boy on Steam at $3.75, even if you were planning on buying it on WiiWare?
First of all, I really doubt that this was done with those intentions. It's more like they did everything they could right down to the very end, and finally gave up. I'm quite sure they didn't want to let their fans down, but ended up having no choice.
Second, why wouldn't you buy Super Meat Boy on Steam at $3.75, even if you were planning on buying it on WiiWare?
Posted: Dec 24th 2010 7:53PM RoueCinnamon said
@Oobgarm And is apparently back up on sale on XBLA as well.
Of course the real tragedy of this post is thinking that SMB isn't worth paying full price for.
Of course the real tragedy of this post is thinking that SMB isn't worth paying full price for.








