When OnLive announced its particular brand of cloud-based gaming was making its way to Vizio's VIA Plus line of connected products, we were eager to get some more details. We got an opportunity today at Vizio's CES suite. While the Vizio tablet and smartphone were on display, they weren't rocking the OnLive implementation just yet; however, that's hardly surprising since, while it was running on the above television, it won't be available publicly on VIA Plus devices until "late in the year."
So what did we learn? That by building the OnLive functionality right into the hardware, they're managing to bypass the input latency associated with an attached device. The television is also able to automatically switch to "game mode" to help ameliorate those delays. And since all of the VIA Plus sets support 3D, OnLive will be working with publishers to support 3D mode directly in the service.
Since the VIA Plus platform is built using Android and Google TV, we asked if we can expect to see OnLive on other Google TV-powered sets. In short, we were told that the OnLive application is actually running below Android, in an effort to get more direct access to the hardware. Apparently, in order to keep pings low, OnLive will be working directly with specific device manufacturers as opposed to a platform-wide app release. Our hands-on time with the service – which we were told is still very early – felt as smooth as it does on a Mac or PC, with a small amount of input lag perceptible on demanding titles, like first-person shooters. Unlike the Mac or PC, the Vizio implementation uses the Microconsole's wireless controller, which will sync with the set.
Much like Netflix before it, partnering with this new breed of connected devices – everything from TVs to Blu-ray players to streaming boxes – seems like a natural fit for the cloud-based OnLive and Vizio, as the nation's #1 LCD HDTV company, is a strong place to start. Where to next, OnLive?
Reader Comments (61)
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:31AM Credge said
FPS are as hard to play on Onlive. It feels like playing an FPS on the Move in that, the delay that exists is pretty rough.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:43AM JONNNathannn said
@Credge If you have a good connection they are not. I'm a PC and console gamer who plays plenty of FPSes and I just tried out Metro33 on OnLive. I have no artifacts or blur and extremely responsive controls. You just need a serious connection.
This is the future, folks.
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This is the future, folks.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:27AM JONNNathannn said
@AirIntake How are you going to say it's not true when reviews like Engadget's and plenty of users have great results?
I played PoP and Metro33 with no lag or artifacting. Engadget says the same thing in their review.
OnLive is not this laggy mess people want it to be.
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I played PoP and Metro33 with no lag or artifacting. Engadget says the same thing in their review.
OnLive is not this laggy mess people want it to be.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:31AM AirIntake said
@JONNNathannn How am I going to say it's not true? Because it didn't work for me. I don't really give a rats ass how great the service is for some people if it doesn't work for me.
Just because reviewers living close to Onlive servers had a good experience, doesn't mean everybody living everywhere will.
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Just because reviewers living close to Onlive servers had a good experience, doesn't mean everybody living everywhere will.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 11:38AM Dasfoote said
@AirIntake
I have yet to try OnLive myself, but I am inclined to agree that it would depend more on how close you are to the onlive server than how fast your internet service 'says' it is. Speeds seem to vary during the day no matter who your service provider is and what they say your connection is.
Most publications are in larger cities, so they are probably much closer to the servers (and have a variety to choose from). Someone living in northern Idaho is probably going to have a bunch of lag connecting to a server (most likely in Seattle, if I'm lucky), than some one living in L.A.
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I have yet to try OnLive myself, but I am inclined to agree that it would depend more on how close you are to the onlive server than how fast your internet service 'says' it is. Speeds seem to vary during the day no matter who your service provider is and what they say your connection is.
Most publications are in larger cities, so they are probably much closer to the servers (and have a variety to choose from). Someone living in northern Idaho is probably going to have a bunch of lag connecting to a server (most likely in Seattle, if I'm lucky), than some one living in L.A.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 12:11PM Credge said
@stevo13344
It controls fine, it's just that there's a lag with your actions. MAG, The Shoot, and Time Crisis are pretty poor. It's not an immediate point and click. It's more of a you aim in a general direction and then the cursor follows what you just did, and then you fine tune your shot.
Sure, if you do very, very slow movements it appears fine. When you start doing anything resembling fast, it just doesn't stack up.
On a semi-related note, OnLive works just fine for games like Batman Arkham Asylum. It doesn't for UT3. Twitch games require absolute 1:1, and neither the Move nor OnLive offer this.
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It controls fine, it's just that there's a lag with your actions. MAG, The Shoot, and Time Crisis are pretty poor. It's not an immediate point and click. It's more of a you aim in a general direction and then the cursor follows what you just did, and then you fine tune your shot.
Sure, if you do very, very slow movements it appears fine. When you start doing anything resembling fast, it just doesn't stack up.
On a semi-related note, OnLive works just fine for games like Batman Arkham Asylum. It doesn't for UT3. Twitch games require absolute 1:1, and neither the Move nor OnLive offer this.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 12:18PM Credge said
@JONNNathannn
My connection is fine. I get about 30 ping on a bad day on Texas servers while I'm in Virginia, with about 70 to European servers. My up and down speeds are stupid fast (10mbps down, 2 mbps up). If "fine" to you equates to input lag, then sure, OnLive is the future of gaming.
Don't get me wrong, I was completely shocked at how playable it was. I rented Batman Arkham Asylum from the service and it was fine.
At the same time I demoed UT3 and it operated just like MAG/The Shoot/Time Crisis do on the PS3 Move. There is an input lag there, and it has a major impact on the playability of the game.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I can play UT3 and stomp face on the second highest AI for PC. I had to turn UT3 down to a lower than default AI setting to be able to compete with OnLive. It felt just like MAG did. And, although MAG move is fun (as the alternative is truly awful... the sticks), right now the input lag just doesn't cut it.
All Move games have input lag. It's just that some have more than others. Play The Shoot with two players and the input lag suddenly becomes really, really, really bad.
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My connection is fine. I get about 30 ping on a bad day on Texas servers while I'm in Virginia, with about 70 to European servers. My up and down speeds are stupid fast (10mbps down, 2 mbps up). If "fine" to you equates to input lag, then sure, OnLive is the future of gaming.
Don't get me wrong, I was completely shocked at how playable it was. I rented Batman Arkham Asylum from the service and it was fine.
At the same time I demoed UT3 and it operated just like MAG/The Shoot/Time Crisis do on the PS3 Move. There is an input lag there, and it has a major impact on the playability of the game.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I can play UT3 and stomp face on the second highest AI for PC. I had to turn UT3 down to a lower than default AI setting to be able to compete with OnLive. It felt just like MAG did. And, although MAG move is fun (as the alternative is truly awful... the sticks), right now the input lag just doesn't cut it.
All Move games have input lag. It's just that some have more than others. Play The Shoot with two players and the input lag suddenly becomes really, really, really bad.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:34AM Mach2 said
This is sounding better and better. As many have said before me, the only issue I had with the service is the possibility of it crashing and losing all my purchased games. This news seems a testament to the stability of the service.
Plus, I'm saving for an HDTV right now, so I might get one of these OnLive-integrated ones.
Plus, I'm saving for an HDTV right now, so I might get one of these OnLive-integrated ones.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:14AM spin cycle said
@Mach2 Yes. the possibility of crashing is the only issue. Besides the ones of latency and the blockiness when things move rapidly. And the lack of 60fps. And limit of 720p. Oh yeah, and this is no more guarantee it won't crash than it running on a computer or on the $99 microconsole.
Other than that, aces.
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Other than that, aces.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:41AM Kodros said
@spin cycle
Chances of it crashing and losing all your purchased games should be near impossible. That's like saying Gmail is going to crash and lose all your email. Latency isnt bad at all. Most games we play don't run at 60fps. 720p is completely fine for most people using this on their TV.
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Chances of it crashing and losing all your purchased games should be near impossible. That's like saying Gmail is going to crash and lose all your email. Latency isnt bad at all. Most games we play don't run at 60fps. 720p is completely fine for most people using this on their TV.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:52AM JONNNathannn said
@spin cycle Some people are so scared of change. It's amazing to watch people bash OnLive who have clearly never tried it or don't understand it.
Same thing happened when it was announced ("IMPOSSIBLE! PHYSICS LOL"). You'll come around.
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Same thing happened when it was announced ("IMPOSSIBLE! PHYSICS LOL"). You'll come around.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:38AM Beanpie01 said
this is some scary stuff were seeing..
cloud based software huh?..
cloud based software huh?..
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:40AM Smugleaf said
Ass Creed Bro Hood. That's whats next.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:42AM Bueno88 said
Too bad Vizio is one of the worst brands of tv's ever made. I have a friend that works at Sam's and they've had over 2,000 of them returned within 30 days of purchase due to defects in 2010 alone. I'll stick with my Sony, Samsung, or Bravia.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:50AM JONNNathannn said
@Bueno88 Vizio is not only the number one brand in the USA, but if you go to cnet they make the best LED and best LCD they've seen.
They're really, really good.
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They're really, really good.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:34PM jsx92 said
All TV manufacturers buy their glass panels (the image-displaying part of the TV) from the same 3 Chinese manufacturers. The only differences between TVs are build quality, software, and features.
That said, Vizio does suck. You get what you pay for, and there's a reason Vizio is one of the cheapest.
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That said, Vizio does suck. You get what you pay for, and there's a reason Vizio is one of the cheapest.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:49PM KungFuChaosNinja said
@Bueno88
Yeah, like JIAGPOS said, Bravia is a Sony line of TV's.
You don't know much about TV's, do you? No offense.
Vizio is a great TV manufacturer. You'll always have a faulty TV here and there with any brand, but I'm not buying your line about how many returns your local store had.
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Yeah, like JIAGPOS said, Bravia is a Sony line of TV's.
You don't know much about TV's, do you? No offense.
Vizio is a great TV manufacturer. You'll always have a faulty TV here and there with any brand, but I'm not buying your line about how many returns your local store had.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:51PM Vcize said
@Bueno88
Call me crazy, but I don't think someone that didn't know Bravia was made by Sony is the best judge of televisions.
To give you a good analogy. That would be like someone on a TV forum who didn't know that the PS3 was made by Sony trying making a recommendation to you about videogame consoles.
Vizio is a very well respected brand of LCD/LED tvs.
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Call me crazy, but I don't think someone that didn't know Bravia was made by Sony is the best judge of televisions.
To give you a good analogy. That would be like someone on a TV forum who didn't know that the PS3 was made by Sony trying making a recommendation to you about videogame consoles.
Vizio is a very well respected brand of LCD/LED tvs.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:12AM spin cycle said
No, by building it into a device they are not managing to eliminate any form of latency. The latency of the display is inherent, not a function of connecting to a port.
If you can make the display display with less latency from OnLive, you can do it from an HDMI input also. And many displays do, with "game mode".
If you can make the display display with less latency from OnLive, you can do it from an HDMI input also. And many displays do, with "game mode".
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:54AM chrisgrant said
@spin cycle There's a delay when compressing the signal and sending over HDMI, no? This is the same logic that Perlman's talked about when discussing the difference between the Microconsole and the PC/Mac-based solutions.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 3:10AM spin cycle said
@chrisgrant HDMI is not compressed. So no, there's no latency when sending stuff over HDMI.
The big latency difference between a computer and a TV is that most TVs add a few frames latency so they can use induced overshoot to get better pixel response times without giving up color depth and also to look at frames to see if they need to do deinterlacing or reverse pulldown to 24fps. But game mode disables all the extra stuff and makes your TV operate with the same latency as a computer display.
So just use game mode and you'll have the same responsiveness on your TV with a microconsole or computer as with this Vizio all-in-one.
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The big latency difference between a computer and a TV is that most TVs add a few frames latency so they can use induced overshoot to get better pixel response times without giving up color depth and also to look at frames to see if they need to do deinterlacing or reverse pulldown to 24fps. But game mode disables all the extra stuff and makes your TV operate with the same latency as a computer display.
So just use game mode and you'll have the same responsiveness on your TV with a microconsole or computer as with this Vizio all-in-one.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:05PM Scuffles said
@spin cycle Its nice to see that someone else recognized the whole "by building the OnLive functionality right into the hardware, they're managing to bypass the input latency associated with an attached device." blurb as the pure marketing spin that it was/is when compared to say systems that use HDMI.
Of course even if their statement had made a lick of common sense, unless having it built into the TV bypasses all the associated latency from playing a cloud based game over the internet..... it wouldn't mean a damn thing anyhow.
Lets face it if the graphic latency from a PS3/360 hooked through your HDMI was enough to bother you, your one persnickety SOB...... and cloud based gaming will likely be triple bypass enduing. Simpley because its not so much the latency if any between your console (built in or otherwise) to the TV its the latency from
-your intput to the server
-server crunching the data
-Server video stream back to you.
Really it sounds more like "we fixed a non-issue and its magically it is now somehow a selling point!"
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Of course even if their statement had made a lick of common sense, unless having it built into the TV bypasses all the associated latency from playing a cloud based game over the internet..... it wouldn't mean a damn thing anyhow.
Lets face it if the graphic latency from a PS3/360 hooked through your HDMI was enough to bother you, your one persnickety SOB...... and cloud based gaming will likely be triple bypass enduing. Simpley because its not so much the latency if any between your console (built in or otherwise) to the TV its the latency from
-your intput to the server
-server crunching the data
-Server video stream back to you.
Really it sounds more like "we fixed a non-issue and its magically it is now somehow a selling point!"
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:36PM jsx92 said
Any connector will produce interference, which causes nominal latency.
Any length of cable will cause nominal latency in direct proportion to it's length.
When you're talking about milliseconds, it's not too difficult to add it up. So, no, you're wrong and the scientists are right. Go figure.
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Any length of cable will cause nominal latency in direct proportion to it's length.
When you're talking about milliseconds, it's not too difficult to add it up. So, no, you're wrong and the scientists are right. Go figure.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:12PM spin cycle said
@jsx92 Haha. Signals propagate through cables at 90% of the speed of light. A cable does not add milliseconds.
A 3 foot cable would add about 3 nanoseconds. That's 3 millionths of a millisecond.
Interference (you really mean signal return) doesn't produce latency or "nominal latency" whatever that is.
Apparently the math is super easy but yet you can't manage to do it.
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A 3 foot cable would add about 3 nanoseconds. That's 3 millionths of a millisecond.
Interference (you really mean signal return) doesn't produce latency or "nominal latency" whatever that is.
Apparently the math is super easy but yet you can't manage to do it.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 3:33PM RageOverdose said
@spin cycle
May I see your electrical or computer engineering credentials, or better yet a source for your information that either confirms or denies the total latency that occurs between devices connected via HDMI.
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May I see your electrical or computer engineering credentials, or better yet a source for your information that either confirms or denies the total latency that occurs between devices connected via HDMI.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:17AM EtherealMoon said
Wasn't the point of OnLive to be able to essentially run on anything without hardware?
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 6:45AM 2late2die said
@Kodros probably meant "without dependency on hardware"
@EtherealMoon You can run onlive on mac, pc, any tv if you get the microconsole, and now on vizio tv's without any additional hardware purchase - seems like it's pretty flexible about hardware requirements :)
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@EtherealMoon You can run onlive on mac, pc, any tv if you get the microconsole, and now on vizio tv's without any additional hardware purchase - seems like it's pretty flexible about hardware requirements :)
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 6:25AM Nova17899 said
....did they just tease cloud based gaming on smartphones?
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 8:08AM Shalabi said
Laaaaaag
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:48AM JONNNathannn said
@Shalabi foooor peoooplleee wiittthhh poooooor connnneccttiooonnsss
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:34AM eat it said
I love the idea a lot. I really do. I want so badly to be able to play the same game with someone no matter what our hardware is. I think that' is where games need to go.
but
If games are going to continue to cost $30-$60 I think that it will never take off. people need to be able to sell their games and trade them in in order to buy new ones.
I recently bought MoH, GT5 and AC:brotherhood. if it were not for the ability to sell online I would only have MoH.
but
If games are going to continue to cost $30-$60 I think that it will never take off. people need to be able to sell their games and trade them in in order to buy new ones.
I recently bought MoH, GT5 and AC:brotherhood. if it were not for the ability to sell online I would only have MoH.
Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:48AM JONNNathannn said
@eat it OnLive is a good deal when it comes to its 30 minute trials and rental prices. I usually beat games in a couple days and you can rent them for 5 days for less than 8 dollars.
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