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Reader Comments (61)

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:31AM Credge said

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FPS are as hard to play on Onlive. It feels like playing an FPS on the Move in that, the delay that exists is pretty rough.

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:41AM Smugleaf said

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@Credge how good is your connection...?
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 5:10AM stevo13344 said

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@Credge
FPS is great with the move.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:43AM JONNNathannn said

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@Credge If you have a good connection they are not. I'm a PC and console gamer who plays plenty of FPSes and I just tried out Metro33 on OnLive. I have no artifacts or blur and extremely responsive controls. You just need a serious connection.

This is the future, folks.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:21AM AirIntake said

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@JONNNathannn Not true at all. I have a great 15Mbit connection, no lag ever on Xbox Live. Onlive however has horrible lag and is completely unplayable. It has more to do with how close you are to an Onlive server than it is your connection.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:27AM JONNNathannn said

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@AirIntake How are you going to say it's not true when reviews like Engadget's and plenty of users have great results?

I played PoP and Metro33 with no lag or artifacting. Engadget says the same thing in their review.

OnLive is not this laggy mess people want it to be.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:31AM AirIntake said

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@JONNNathannn How am I going to say it's not true? Because it didn't work for me. I don't really give a rats ass how great the service is for some people if it doesn't work for me.

Just because reviewers living close to Onlive servers had a good experience, doesn't mean everybody living everywhere will.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 11:38AM Dasfoote said

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@AirIntake
I have yet to try OnLive myself, but I am inclined to agree that it would depend more on how close you are to the onlive server than how fast your internet service 'says' it is. Speeds seem to vary during the day no matter who your service provider is and what they say your connection is.
Most publications are in larger cities, so they are probably much closer to the servers (and have a variety to choose from). Someone living in northern Idaho is probably going to have a bunch of lag connecting to a server (most likely in Seattle, if I'm lucky), than some one living in L.A.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 12:08PM Credge said

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@Smugleaf

My connection is fine.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 12:11PM Credge said

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@stevo13344

It controls fine, it's just that there's a lag with your actions. MAG, The Shoot, and Time Crisis are pretty poor. It's not an immediate point and click. It's more of a you aim in a general direction and then the cursor follows what you just did, and then you fine tune your shot.

Sure, if you do very, very slow movements it appears fine. When you start doing anything resembling fast, it just doesn't stack up.

On a semi-related note, OnLive works just fine for games like Batman Arkham Asylum. It doesn't for UT3. Twitch games require absolute 1:1, and neither the Move nor OnLive offer this.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 12:18PM Credge said

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@JONNNathannn

My connection is fine. I get about 30 ping on a bad day on Texas servers while I'm in Virginia, with about 70 to European servers. My up and down speeds are stupid fast (10mbps down, 2 mbps up). If "fine" to you equates to input lag, then sure, OnLive is the future of gaming.

Don't get me wrong, I was completely shocked at how playable it was. I rented Batman Arkham Asylum from the service and it was fine.

At the same time I demoed UT3 and it operated just like MAG/The Shoot/Time Crisis do on the PS3 Move. There is an input lag there, and it has a major impact on the playability of the game.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I can play UT3 and stomp face on the second highest AI for PC. I had to turn UT3 down to a lower than default AI setting to be able to compete with OnLive. It felt just like MAG did. And, although MAG move is fun (as the alternative is truly awful... the sticks), right now the input lag just doesn't cut it.

All Move games have input lag. It's just that some have more than others. Play The Shoot with two players and the input lag suddenly becomes really, really, really bad.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:34AM Mach2 said

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This is sounding better and better. As many have said before me, the only issue I had with the service is the possibility of it crashing and losing all my purchased games. This news seems a testament to the stability of the service.

Plus, I'm saving for an HDTV right now, so I might get one of these OnLive-integrated ones.

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:42AM Smugleaf said

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@Mach2 I think they should give you a free game with the HDTV, just like they do with the micro console.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:45AM JIAGPOS said

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@Mach2

That's why you invest in Steam.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:14AM spin cycle said

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@Mach2 Yes. the possibility of crashing is the only issue. Besides the ones of latency and the blockiness when things move rapidly. And the lack of 60fps. And limit of 720p. Oh yeah, and this is no more guarantee it won't crash than it running on a computer or on the $99 microconsole.

Other than that, aces.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:41AM Kodros said

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@spin cycle

Chances of it crashing and losing all your purchased games should be near impossible. That's like saying Gmail is going to crash and lose all your email. Latency isnt bad at all. Most games we play don't run at 60fps. 720p is completely fine for most people using this on their TV.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:52AM JONNNathannn said

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@spin cycle Some people are so scared of change. It's amazing to watch people bash OnLive who have clearly never tried it or don't understand it.

Same thing happened when it was announced ("IMPOSSIBLE! PHYSICS LOL"). You'll come around.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:22AM AirIntake said

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@JONNNathannn I've tried it, I understand it, and it didn't work for me. They need more server locations.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:38AM Beanpie01 said

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this is some scary stuff were seeing..

cloud based software huh?..

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:40AM Smugleaf said

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Ass Creed Bro Hood. That's whats next.

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 6:42AM 2late2die said

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@Smugleaf Too long, I say we just call it Ass Hood :D
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:45AM butaneko said

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@2late2die Maybe Assassin's Creed: Ackbar's Curse or Asscrack for short
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:42AM Bueno88 said

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Too bad Vizio is one of the worst brands of tv's ever made. I have a friend that works at Sam's and they've had over 2,000 of them returned within 30 days of purchase due to defects in 2010 alone. I'll stick with my Sony, Samsung, or Bravia.

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:47AM JIAGPOS said

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@Bueno88
Bravia is Sony.

Pretty much all the big brand names are good with less than 1% defects. JVC, Sharp, Panasonic, Pioneer
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 3:16AM Bueno88 said

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@JIAGPOS
aah. Never knew that about Bravia. And yeah, it seems like every brand of TV is good EXCEPT Vizio lol. Which is a shame, because onLive looks kind of interesting if they could instal it on a better TV and fix the attrocious ping lol
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:50AM JONNNathannn said

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@Bueno88 Vizio is not only the number one brand in the USA, but if you go to cnet they make the best LED and best LCD they've seen.

They're really, really good.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:34PM jsx92 said

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All TV manufacturers buy their glass panels (the image-displaying part of the TV) from the same 3 Chinese manufacturers. The only differences between TVs are build quality, software, and features.

That said, Vizio does suck. You get what you pay for, and there's a reason Vizio is one of the cheapest.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:36PM iceytoa1 said

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@JIAGPOS
Personally Panasonic and Sony seem to make the best HDTV's, I have a UMC though because it was cheap and good lol!
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:49PM KungFuChaosNinja said

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@Bueno88

Yeah, like JIAGPOS said, Bravia is a Sony line of TV's.

You don't know much about TV's, do you? No offense.

Vizio is a great TV manufacturer. You'll always have a faulty TV here and there with any brand, but I'm not buying your line about how many returns your local store had.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:51PM Vcize said

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@Bueno88

Call me crazy, but I don't think someone that didn't know Bravia was made by Sony is the best judge of televisions.

To give you a good analogy. That would be like someone on a TV forum who didn't know that the PS3 was made by Sony trying making a recommendation to you about videogame consoles.

Vizio is a very well respected brand of LCD/LED tvs.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:12AM spin cycle said

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No, by building it into a device they are not managing to eliminate any form of latency. The latency of the display is inherent, not a function of connecting to a port.

If you can make the display display with less latency from OnLive, you can do it from an HDMI input also. And many displays do, with "game mode".

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:54AM chrisgrant said

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@spin cycle There's a delay when compressing the signal and sending over HDMI, no? This is the same logic that Perlman's talked about when discussing the difference between the Microconsole and the PC/Mac-based solutions.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 3:10AM spin cycle said

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@chrisgrant HDMI is not compressed. So no, there's no latency when sending stuff over HDMI.

The big latency difference between a computer and a TV is that most TVs add a few frames latency so they can use induced overshoot to get better pixel response times without giving up color depth and also to look at frames to see if they need to do deinterlacing or reverse pulldown to 24fps. But game mode disables all the extra stuff and makes your TV operate with the same latency as a computer display.

So just use game mode and you'll have the same responsiveness on your TV with a microconsole or computer as with this Vizio all-in-one.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:05PM Scuffles said

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@spin cycle Its nice to see that someone else recognized the whole "by building the OnLive functionality right into the hardware, they're managing to bypass the input latency associated with an attached device." blurb as the pure marketing spin that it was/is when compared to say systems that use HDMI.

Of course even if their statement had made a lick of common sense, unless having it built into the TV bypasses all the associated latency from playing a cloud based game over the internet..... it wouldn't mean a damn thing anyhow.

Lets face it if the graphic latency from a PS3/360 hooked through your HDMI was enough to bother you, your one persnickety SOB...... and cloud based gaming will likely be triple bypass enduing. Simpley because its not so much the latency if any between your console (built in or otherwise) to the TV its the latency from

-your intput to the server
-server crunching the data
-Server video stream back to you.

Really it sounds more like "we fixed a non-issue and its magically it is now somehow a selling point!"
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:36PM jsx92 said

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Any connector will produce interference, which causes nominal latency.

Any length of cable will cause nominal latency in direct proportion to it's length.

When you're talking about milliseconds, it's not too difficult to add it up. So, no, you're wrong and the scientists are right. Go figure.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:12PM spin cycle said

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@jsx92 Haha. Signals propagate through cables at 90% of the speed of light. A cable does not add milliseconds.

A 3 foot cable would add about 3 nanoseconds. That's 3 millionths of a millisecond.

Interference (you really mean signal return) doesn't produce latency or "nominal latency" whatever that is.

Apparently the math is super easy but yet you can't manage to do it.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 3:33PM RageOverdose said

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@spin cycle

May I see your electrical or computer engineering credentials, or better yet a source for your information that either confirms or denies the total latency that occurs between devices connected via HDMI.

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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:17AM EtherealMoon said

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Wasn't the point of OnLive to be able to essentially run on anything without hardware?

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 2:48AM Kodros said

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Heh, how is it possible to not use hardware? Always need something to process the images.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 6:45AM 2late2die said

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@Kodros probably meant "without dependency on hardware"
@EtherealMoon You can run onlive on mac, pc, any tv if you get the microconsole, and now on vizio tv's without any additional hardware purchase - seems like it's pretty flexible about hardware requirements :)
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 1:15PM Scuffles said

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@EtherealMoon Yes why just this morning I was playing Full resolution Crysis 2 on my zoetrope.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 8:10AM Shalabi said

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Or If the company goes under you're pretty much screwed. Unlike the 360/ps3/wii.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 6:25AM Nova17899 said

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....did they just tease cloud based gaming on smartphones?

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 8:08AM MrAlex said

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@Nova17899

They ran crysis on an iPhone before in a presentation, it's been teased plenty.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 8:08AM Shalabi said

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Laaaaaag

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:48AM JONNNathannn said

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@Shalabi foooor peoooplleee wiittthhh poooooor connnneccttiooonnsss
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 10:23AM AirIntake said

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@JONNNathannn It has nothing to do with poor connections you troll, it has to do with ping to the Onlive servers. If you don't live close enough, you get lag, regardless of your connection.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:34AM eat it said

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I love the idea a lot. I really do. I want so badly to be able to play the same game with someone no matter what our hardware is. I think that' is where games need to go.

but

If games are going to continue to cost $30-$60 I think that it will never take off. people need to be able to sell their games and trade them in in order to buy new ones.

I recently bought MoH, GT5 and AC:brotherhood. if it were not for the ability to sell online I would only have MoH.

Posted: Jan 6th 2011 9:48AM JONNNathannn said

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@eat it OnLive is a good deal when it comes to its 30 minute trials and rental prices. I usually beat games in a couple days and you can rent them for 5 days for less than 8 dollars.
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Posted: Jan 6th 2011 11:09AM Kodros said

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@eat it I don't trade games in but I agree that they need to be cheaper. Paying full price for a game that is a glorified rental is rough. Then again, isn't that what Steam is? If Steam goes away, can you still play your games?
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