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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:30PM baddates77 said

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I've tried a couple of the Facebook games. They just didn't hold my attention. Not even the Final Fantasy one. That said, keep making your crappy games people. Somebody wants to play them. Hell, if they can keep making new Nascar games I guess you can make games out of anything.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 2:12AM BlazeKing said

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@baddates77

Do you play Poker? That's the only game I play on a regular basis. They're not "Facebook Games" but instead just games on facebook. There's good games on there that are social. In otherwords... MULTIPLAYER. We're already playing social games on consoles, lol. That's how I look at it. I hate Farmville, Mafia wars, and those types of social "Stat" games.
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:31PM Nova17899 said

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So... they make bad games, people call them out on it, then they get mad? No news there

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:41PM thelolotov said

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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:48PM bloodlinejake said

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Is this a joke?

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:58PM (Unverified) said

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When they stop making farmville, I might pay attention.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:33PM WiredKnight said

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@(Unverified)

Right. Because "they" are the only ones who make social games, and "they" were the only ones speaking.

If you actually did pay attention, you'd look like less of a dumbass.
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 8:58PM Mama Luigi said

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Call the whambulance.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:28PM bloodlinejake said

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@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
For an assassin, you got some bitchin gifs.
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 10:02PM Ezio Auditore da Firenze said

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@bloodlinejake

Aww, thank you. I've worked hard, and braved the perils of some very seedy places, to gather this collection. ;)
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:13PM sigma8 said

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I don't think it's the socialness about social games that is bad, it's just the fact that they are all crappy games in general. The same complaint can be leveraged at the Wii or the iPhone.

I'm a little confused by "social" games, anyway. What makes a game social? EverQuest seemed pretty social. MUDs were pretty social. What about Farmville is more social? The fact that integrates into my contact list and spams my friends? Is that what a "social" game is? Because if that is what a social game is, then, yeah, social games suck.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 10:29PM AntiVillian said

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@sigma8

You are entirely correct! facebook itself isn't even social, its as social as leaving a photo in the street and passerby's writing things on bits of paper and leaving it scattered around the photo, or variations on this scenario.

The entire social aspect of everything on facebook is a marketing ploy to be cool when really I'd say it does more to destroy social interaction than encourage it.

I am 19 btw not some old guy who hates technology (if there's even anyone like that on joystiq) just MHO
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 10:34PM capnwalrus said

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@sigma8 Nobody here ever seems to mention the fact that all Facebook games and apps make money through the selling of your information to other companies. Facebook doesn't do this, as they make money through ads, but the only source of profit for companies like Zynga is through selling your information, though some do sell in game currency. Additionally, these companies can get your information through your friends who use said games or applications, unless you turn that off in your security settings, which you should probably do right now.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 2:20AM BlazeKing said

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@sigma8

"Social Game" is nothing but a buzzword for "Multiplayer".

Take Mafia Wars for instance. "Join my Mafia" is like joining a clan on XBL or PSN. Then take Zynga Poker, you can invite someone to your game or "table" just like on consoles where you would invite someone into your "room". We already spam our online buddies with notifications unless you turn them off; just like you can on social networks. Social games and networks on consoles also have communities behind them.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 7:36AM Xero Theory said

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@BlazeKing The difference when I'm on XBL I'm actually on to play games, when I'm on facebook not so much. On, facebook you also have the problem of your information being spread and sold in games you might not even play. On consoles you pay your $60 for the game and another $60 for live in XBL's case, and get to play the game to it's fullest. Facebook games you start playing for free, but are forced to look at ads and pay (sometimes up to thousands of dollars) for content to be able to play the game to it's fullest. Look at it this way, playing a facebook or Iphone game would be like playing COD and having to pay real life money to unlock a new gun or camo or playing WoW and having to pay real money for leather to use crafting a certain armor.

Social games have their place, and as long as there are people who enjoy them I can respect that. But, when it comes to people crying because their games that whore ads charge real money for items sometimes essential to being about to play that game, that's where I stop caring. Face it and accept it, you're in the bush leagues of the video game industry. It's not completely a bad thing, you still have millions of people using your product addictively and are making a lot of money. But, don't ever try to put yourselfs in the same sentence as people who make true videogames or expect the same respect from the majority of the gaming crowd. Some of these devs. seemed to understand that and I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone, but all I can say to the people crying is "what do you expect"?

Maybe I should post a transcript on of my own rant about how my profession should be taken more seriously on my blog now too that it's over haha.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 9:52AM Apakal said

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@AntiVillian

"its as social as leaving a photo in the street and passerby's writing things on bits of paper and leaving it scattered around the photo, or variations on this scenario."

This my friend, is a wonderful idea for a public art project.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 4:44PM BigD145 said

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@AntiVillian "its as social as leaving a photo in the street"

You forgot "with your name, address, phone number, and blood type"
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:19PM CnEY said

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While I'll agree with the general sentiment of comments here that social games are a scourge, I'm glad I actually bothered reading the article - it seems that some of the rants these people went on are actually called for and constructive.

I particularly applaud Trip Hawkins, as any big name pushing against the bullshit of the iOS app store and towards the use of the open web instead is huge, IMO.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:29PM sigma8 said

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@CnEY
Actually, I am grateful for the App store, and I like Apple's take on it, for this reason: it's creating an environment where people actually _buy_ apps, thus mitigating or altogether avoiding the "freemium" models championed by Facebook and Google, where apps are littered with ads and endorsements.

Google's Chrome OS was initially going to eschew apps altogether--a cloud-only appliance. This is really good for Google, who can afford to host the cloud itself...but not so hot for developers, who'd have to cover the costs (own or lease) of the infrastructure needed to host their apps. With the App Store, the apps are downloaded locally, generally for a cost. This lets smaller, indie developers both make money and also not worry about hosting infrastructure.

The whole "App" phenomenon really put a dent in Google's "cloud" plans. There are some great cloud apps, like DropBox. But if everything was in the cloud, it'd be tougher for smaller companies and individuals to widely distribute stuff.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 12:19AM (Unverified) said

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@CnEY
The App Store actually gets developers exposure and limits the amount of management oversight you need to release an app. Do it the old fashion way and you'd be stuck pitching it to publishers or distributing and marketing the whole thing yourself. Releasing to the browser maybe fine for big names that would love to cut out the middle man and their oversight. But its unsuitable for small outfits and indies that need a vehicle for their products.

What's wrong is the model where you are "encouraged" to a release game as an exclusive for a certain platform and given benefits to do so. Not only that, they take a slice off the top like the App Store and what they give you in return is a suit telling you how your game doesn't fit their mold and why you should strip this element or that.
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Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:28PM Pure Black World Tendency said

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We have the right to hate them after all the "%ยค#"! mafia wars and farmville requests and advertising that was unleashed upon us on facebook a while back.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:38PM Airdemon said

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in the words of peter griffin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:53PM Irem said

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The "You're Doing It Wrong" rant is excellent.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:55PM (Unverified) said

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@Wiredknight

With a dumb ass name like that, I take it as a compliment :)

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 9:59PM bm111 said

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Well, I'm glad she at least distances herself from vermin such as Zynga.

Posted: Mar 5th 2011 10:25PM A Sandwich said

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I can only assume that any dude choosing to call himself "Trip" is two-thirds to a re*tard. "Yeah, f*ck Nintendo for introducing a business model that saved the video game industry! What a bun of asshats! "

He also has a blog called - and I can't believe I'm actually typing this - "Trip's OMG Blog. And, yes, he's apparently not a 14-year old girl, somehow. I hate this guy so much that I want to film myself having a threesome with his wife and a 3DO and send a copy of the DVD to him registered mail just so that I'm absolutely sure that he got it.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 12:56AM mechafenris said

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@A Sandwich

Not so harsh... though 3DO was a flop, he did found EA, back when it was a cool company. (He left Apple to found EA, btw.) Back when cool games like Racing Destruction Set, MULE, the home version of Marble Madness, Pinball Construction Set... I could go on. :)

EA has since become a corporate behemoth... but back in the 80's it published some seriously good games.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 12:56AM Undying said

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Thats because they make shitty flash games and scam people into buying shit for it.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 1:26AM supersonic124 said

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If you social game devs want respect, you need to make better games.

Respected is earned not given.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 10:24AM VeeDeeVee said

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@supersonic124
Exactly!

*bends arm back to give high 5*
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 3:15AM HeroicPrinny said

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Sigh, don't these people not understand the fundamentals of humanity? If you have to use words to convince someone that your games are good and that you deserve respect, well, you're doing it wrong. People generally know instinctively what is fun and enjoyable, and to explain to someone why they aren't enjoying something is almost as dumbfounding and insulting as trying to explain to someone why they should be in love with you when they just aren't.

In other words, there is a good reason people don't like your games, even if you can't accept that. You are game designers right? Go design some good games. Saying "I have 60,000 hours of experience developing games" sounds very similar to a kid saying "I have a black belt' even though he may not be able to ever win a fight. Actions speak louder than words. The ranting just comes off as insecure.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 8:26AM LowKeyyyy said

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like facebook games? fine.....

dont come over here, piss on my gate,
save it, just keep it off my wave.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 8:58AM Hamildad said

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Soundgarden......they rule.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 9:09AM Shinta said

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But social games suck sooooo hard. This is just stupid. The SNES made games that blow this shit away, and it wasn't loaded with micro-transactions and annoying friend messages. End of story.

This is nothing but a big commercial, in rant form.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 2:03PM ShadowXIII said

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@Shinta

And see, that's just it...if they *really* tried to make a good game like something on the SNES...it could very well be done via facebook.

Meanwhile, they are making base html, and low level java apps to sucker people, ...that usually don't know any better..., into "time for points" or "buy points now" money sinks and adding mild "pvp" elements. And lets not even go into the fact that most of the apps use 'grey' techniques like clickjacking, trace cookies and a few trojans just to run half of em...(..like just about anything Zynga, and a few others)

Which, don't get me wrong...its a cute little hustle...and people are buying into this scheme, true, no hate there,...but don't *dare* ask for respect.

Respect for being a scheming lazy ass? ...hardly.
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Posted: Mar 6th 2011 10:23AM VeeDeeVee said

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I have lost all respect for the devs crying at this event.
I will no longer buy any games any of the speakers make.

Has to be the way, sorry.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 11:35AM Jacksons said

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Great games will speak for themselves.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 1:53PM ShadowXIII said

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Cry me a river.

Posted: Mar 6th 2011 3:57PM Bryan H said

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I've got no respect for the carbon-copy companies that spit out something like 'Farm Town' to piggyback on the success of someone else. Taking inspiration from a game or genre is one thing, but shoving something out to try and ride on someone else's coattails is the sign of a bankrupt soul.

That said, social games do get a bad rap, and there are plenty out there trying to be creative and innovative in a sea of mediocrity. Games should be opened to as many people as possible, whether that be from consoles or social websites or cell phones, and the more places games (and the people who make them) thrive, the better off the games industry will be.

Posted: Mar 7th 2011 6:40AM wcarnation said

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can Chris Hecker do or say anything that isn't painfully pretentious as all hell?

Posted: Mar 7th 2011 7:52AM TheShaper said

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When you come to think of it, the Wii itself is somewhat segregated from what it is considered "mainstream gaming". Up to two or three years ago, there was a huge fuzz about whether it could "keep up" with the other two and it was a "fad", a "girls' platform", a "moms' console" and so on and so forth. These days, we don't hear this kind of crap anymore, since, I don't know, I think people got used to and even settled on what Nintendo was splurting all along: It's for a different demographics. I won't even say "different", but it's definitely a broader one and MOST of us stopped putting it in a head-to-head competition with The 360 and PS3. I don't mean to shun the console here, in fact, I'm currently playing The Other M and loving it. But bear with me, I'm going somewhere with it all.

Said that, social gamer developers should just take a hint and get used to the fact that they ARE NOT able to keep up with the mainstream and they are a different class. Social games ARE NOT for people who play Resistence or Halo and never will be. Get over it and stop whinning, f*cking Farmville brought them more money last year than all of EA's efforts combined. I'd gladly let the rest of ANY industry have a laugh at my account if I made a $20 mil profit a year.

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