Rovio's Vesterbacka defends mobile games, calls out Nintendo's '$49 pieces of plastic'

@Captain Planet Planeteer Power

This comment (c) by Engadget.

@A Sandwich

I think he is just defending his company, profession and status as a developer. It was Nintendo that fired the first shot.

@A Sandwich a

Well I give it to the guy he did wait about 2 or 3 weeks before making a response. Probably not the best person to speak on how gaming in the "casual market" is changing but, I'll give him props for not staying tight lipped while another CEO talks about how you make your bread and butter...

@A Sandwich

Oh, and I already played Angry Birds on my Wii three years before it came out on my phone except that it was called Boom Blox and it was way better.

@A Sandwich

Oh snap! I have to agree, Boom Blox is excellent.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Fired the first shot?

Or raised a valid and logical point at a DEVELOPERS conference?

You think Wii & PS2 shovelware is bad? Take a scroll thru the iPhone/Android/BlackBerry App Stores.

Ick!

@A Sandwich

I completely agree that Rovio is a one-hit wonder, and chances are they will be little more.

That being said, Vesterbacka's point is correct. Here are some of the games that I have purchased for 99 cents or less on my iOS device:

Peggle
Civilization Revolutions
Street Fighter IV
Puzzle Agent
Rage HD
Monkey Island

Any of these games would (and in several cases, already have) sell for a retail value of at least $30 on the DS, at least $40 on the 3DS, and very likely at least $40 on the NGP. I think the "pieces of plastic" that Vesterbacka is referring to are DS cartridges, not discs for console games.

Both iOS and DS platforms have a ton of crappy games and a few great games. Nintendo has been viciously attacking mobile games, and implying that crappy games are exclusive to the non-DS platforms.

Nintendo is desperately attempting to preserve their rights to charge huge markups to play the same game on their platform. But in the next couple of years, fewer and fewer consumers will be buying that argument. Or $40+ portable games.

@A Sandwich

Also, can anyone figure why including the word s-u-g-g-e-s-t-i-n-g in your post triggers the obscenity filter and unceremoniously trashes the entire post?

I'm pretty creative when it comes to obscenity, and I can't possibly figure out what the rationale is.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Iwata at least fired the first shot with much more class than mister "$49 pieces of plastic" up there. Vesterbacka sounds as deluded as the guy that reviewed 3DS for CNN

@Co

What's the difference between SFIV on iPhone & 3DS? We can split hairs on 3D (3DS) and high fidelity graphics (iPhone) but the biggest difference is it's $5.00 on iPhone and $40.00 on 3DS. Is the 3DS version worth $35 more? No it isn't. Nintendo can kick and scream about quality but at the end of the day the app store and sophistication of mobile phones allows for the same experience at a fraction of the cost.

That's from someone who is on an iPhone now and bought and loves his 3DS. Proprietary handheld gaming is dying because of cost of entry. Why spend the money on a new DS or PSP and $40 for the games when you get the same experience or better on your cell phone?

I think the market has shifted and cultural phenomenons like angry birds is a huge reason why.

@Mr. Khan

I don't see anything classless about his statements.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

What is the difference? How about all the missing content(fighters and game modes) on the iphone version?

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell The question isn't is the 3DS version worth more but is the iOS version charging too little. The $.99 pricing model of the App Store is unsustainable.

@A Sandwich
::smh:: That's big "pee wee" talk coming from a guy who didn't even credit the company responsible for the physics engine used in Angry Birds...

www.joystiq.com/2011/02/.../overheard-gdc-credit-where-credits-due/

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell "Proprietary handheld gaming is dying because of cost of entry."

Dying? Are you nuts?

@A Sandwich

"Wow, what a little bitch. Not surprising, I guess, one-hit wonders always are."

I seem to distinctly remember Iwata and Fils-Aime talking about how much of a threat $.99 games were to the video game industry and how the company did not see the value in "hobbyist developers"; one can't exactly blame Rovio for defending itself. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo has spent the better part of 5 years catering to the same demographic that is buying Angry Birds and, yes, $.99 casual games are a threat...but only to Nintendo since it's entire business model is based off of focusing on casual gamers. If I can buy an iOS game like that offers comparable visuals to a console game, is just easy to pick up/put down, and offers the same level of entertainment over the period of time, why would I spend $50-$60 on a Wii game? If I was an avid player of indie games, why would I use WiiWare when the App Store offers a much more extensive library?

If Apple were to, tomorrow, offer a micro-console using the iPad's SoC with a DVD-ROM and a control scheme comparable to the Wiimote (or Kinect), you'd see Nintendo's position as the console market leader evaporate almost overnight. Whiny bitch? Perhaps. But it sounds to me that Nintendo's terrified by the success developers like Rovio are having by releasing cheap titles on the App Store, and devs like Rovio know it.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell
Actualy, the game play is much more simplified on the iphone port, versus the 3DS one. It shares some of the same characters, and mechanics, but inputs were simplified to work with the touch screen.

Most other iphone ports are the same way. They take a console/pc game, simplify it, then release it as an iOS game.

@Roto13

When mobile SoCs are doubling or quadrupling in power every six months, spending $250 on a handheld that's technologically out of date (by a few years, at that) before it launches with $40 games (on average) doesn't really make a lot of sense, especially when one considers you can get a subsidized smart phone that offers much more functionality at the same or lower cost with a higher level of performance.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

I dunno. I'd like to actually be able to CONTROL my games instead of touching the screen and in turn covering part of the playing field. I like to have precision control and not an estimation of what I probably swiped. Which means I'll have to play Street Fighter on a console instead of either portable.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell
The 3ds version of ssfiv beats the iphone version in every way.Graphics,controls,content.Oh i have never seen a game that was released on the ds or psp that played better on a cellphone if there's one please let me know.

@copa

Except SFIV was definitely subsidized by the console which is exactly the issue Nintendo was raising.

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Cost of entry is likely even at most given the cost of smartphones, but I agree otherwise. Though SFIV is not a good example. It's very existence was subsidized by its release on consoles, costs on the app store for "real" games are going to go up simply because of the economics, not in spite of them.

@jackal Other than WORKING with Nintendo and Nintendo in turn specifically mentioning Rovio as NOT a garage developer I suppose Vesterbacka was completely in the right.

Also, whether that hypothetical of an Apple device is true or not (were it so obvious one would think Apple would be making more of a move, it's not like video games aren't a multibillion dollar pot and proven access to entertainment center status), there is plenty of danger of .99 games eroding perceived value in games. Certainly there is a better status than $60 hoe console and $40 portable, but we aren't getting Street Fighter' IV's for $5 without the consoles first subsidizing them. Eliminate THAT revenue stream and you aren't getting SF IV's at all.

@copa dude but those iOS version sucks so bad they should be free.

Now if it had a real controller then maybe but touch is not working.

@houser

There's no hypothetical Apple device in the works; I was merely commenting that if such a thing were to be suddenly hit the market, Nintendo would be royally screwed because most of the Wii's target audience would abandon that console in favor of the new entry. If you don't have an attachment to Nintendo's few first party franchises (casual gamers really don't seem to), there would be no compelling reason to stick with them. Microsoft and Sony's consoles are relatively safe, as they offer something for everybody; the hardcore gamers have their franchises, the casual gamers have their "innovative interfaces", and the A/V guy has a fairly solid alternative to the traditional media center. If you're worried about subsidizing costs, you'd rely on Sony and MS's machines, not Nintendo's.

I sincerely doubt we'll ever see an Apple console, if for nothing else but the few employees still suffering from flashbacks of the Pippin. Also, with Steve Jobs at the helm, the company will not sell anything that man considers "just a toy".

As for the correction in regards to what I said, Nintendo's comments were aimed at all mobile developers as well as indie developers (Minecraft's pretty solid despite having been the product of just a "garage" developer). Other than working with Nintendo to the point of getting Angry Birds onto its systems, Rovio and Nintendo seem to have a somewhat antagonistic relationship; Rovio's previous successes with cheap games undermines Nintendo's ability to sell comparable games at a much higher price. One's success comes at the expense of the other's. Also, even if I am 100% wrong, I take solace in the fact that my cognitive facilities are not impaired. Walking pneumonia = brain draining suck. I'm just happy to be having an intelligent conversation :)

@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

i don't understand why they can't co-exist. why does one have to replace the other? consoles have even addressed this exact issue with things like XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, PS Minis, DSiWare, etc. i like having games on my phone but i also love having my games on a dedicated handheld for those longer games because it's more comfortable in the hand. they both have their place but both CEO's do make some points.

@jackal

I fail to see why I was ghosted. The fact of the matter is, Nintendo's entire business model right now depends almost exclusively on the same group of people funneling money into the App store. It was a tremendous risk hedging all of its bets on the casual audience and, for Nintendo, it's also one that's been incredibly profitable (they're the only console maker making money hand over fist). But it would be totally disingenuous and dishonest to think that a competing service targeting that same demographic wouldn't be able to cause Nintendo's marketshare to hemorrhage (especially now that the Wii's gimmicks are starting to run out of steam). Setting aside the 3DS, what does the company honestly have to rely on? A handful of franchises it can't effectively leverage or a core audience that couldn't keep the GC's sorry ass afloat during its hey day? And with the 3DS, do any of you honestly think its predecessors days of "Let's release 10,000 casual mini-games at $40-$50 a pop" are going to continue when you can get a comparable gaming experience for less than $5?

@A Sandwich

Boom Blox is nothing like Angry Birds. Not even remotely close.

@jackal Yak yak yak yak yak. The has been selling more than every other handheld in the history of the world did in the same amount of time. Handheld gaming isn't dying, no matter how much you think it should be.

@Roto13

Why don't you re-read my posts before commenting on them like an ill-informed, sarcastic ass. Nowhere in them did I say handheld gaming is dying. I said, 1) it does not make sense to tie yourself to an outdated SOC that is relatively expensive to manufacture when smaller, more powerful, and cheaper SOCs are coming out on almost a quarterly basis and 2) that the likes of Nintendo cannot rely on $40 games like Cooking Mama when a $.99 app can deliver much of the same experience at a fraction of the cost. All I've done is point out that Nintendo's entire business model, right now, rests on nothing more than its ability to keep casual gamers under its roof; with the 3DS being priced high enough to not replicate the immediate success of its predecessors and with the Wii losing steam as people are coming to the realization they can get an HD console with motion controls and a bundled game for just a few dollars more, do you honestly believe all is well in the house that Mario built? Do you honestly think Nintendo would go to such great lengths to take pot shots at mobile game developers if it didn't feel that they were a direct threat to that current business strategy? Yes, the money train is still coming in but it's carrying less cargo each time it does so. Perhaps I should be drinking the same koolaid you are; perhaps I wouldn't have come to the realization that the company is completely screwed if it hemorrhages its audience on both the console and held front to competitors that offer more or the same for a lower cost.

@jackal So why are you replying to my comment with something that has nothing to do with it, then?

@copa "and very likely at least $40 on the NGP"

PSP has a minis program for games like this, of which Angry Birds is part of.

PSP actually has lots of cheaper games, thanks to how cost effective UMD is vs cards/carts

@Roto13

It has plenty to do with your comment. 1) You put words in my mouth I clearly did not say, 2) you did so in a remarkably dickish manner, and 3) I was reiterating the point that I had made (which I'm going to do again just to be an ass); the $.99 app market is a direct threat to Nintendo's current business strategy of "Let's charge casual gamers $40-$60 for a collection of mediocre mini-games", the company is spreading FUD rather than positioning themselves to become competitive with/within that market, and, again, tying one's self to an outdated SOC that costs a pretty penny to manufacture when more profitable (and powerful) SOCs are emerging every 3 months is going to stop being a viable business strategy within the near future. Sony and MS are changing their business strategies due to this, and they aren't pissing, moaning, or growing while they do so; is it too much to expect the same of the big N? And as for the DS being the fastest selling hand held in history...yes, that's true. It was also cheaper at launch than the 3DS and offered something many considered revolutionary (two screen, accurate touch gaming); beyond stereoscopic 3D and better visuals, there's not as much reason to get excited about the 3DS. It'll sell well...it'll simply take it much longer to replicate the success of its predecessor.

Let me just say that while smart phone games are getting better and better in terms of graphics, in terms of controls and battery life they're not advancing at all. Try and play SFIV on your Iphone vs your 3ds and see which lasts longer.....I don't know about you guys but even with everthing turned off on the iphone I get shit battery life.

@remeran
Also, it's even worse with other smart phones.

@PlatinumSkeet

According to Nintendo, no, it hasn't. They don't deal with "Garage Developers", nor their garage remarks.

Now Sega's "Nintendon't"...THAT was when SH!T GOT REAL!

@CaptainProtonX

True but, who wasn't expecting something to be said after GDC2011?

@pally321

Yup, not like the heroes at Nintendo who called him a "garage" developer. You folks are proving ol' Peter right.

@mrmojoz

And you're proving that you don't know how to read. Reggie has stated that he doesn't include Angry Birds with the rest of the tripe and since they ARE working with - wait for it - Nintendo, he (Peter) obviously wasn't meant to be included in those statements. This is just diva behavior. Whatever, he'll be bankrupt in 5 years.

@mrmojoz
Rovio has been in business for 8 years, has made 40+ games, and has 50+ employees. I don't think that's what they meant by 'garage developer'.

They probably were working out of a garage at some point, though, and Nintendo wouldn't have given them the time of day. And rightly so, I say. Have you seen some of their pre-Angry Birds shit? We don't need any more of that crap dumped into the app stores/marketplaces/-wares.

@A Sandwich

This reminds me of news print comics poo-pooing web comics as trash while patting themselves on the back. That isn't turning out too well for the newspaper guys.

@mrmojoz
But then again, Nintendo can keep bringing good games while Rovio only has remakes of the same game with pissed off birds.

@chargen
CAVE STORY....that's the definition of a garage dev game and it's on wii, DSi, and soon 3DS.....

@darkfocus
The remake of Cave Story that was released on those platforms was not made by one guy in his garage. The original was a labor of love by its developer, took over 4 years to make, and was released for free. He had made a dozen or so games before that.

I'm not getting how "we don't want developers making their first game in their garage" applies to any developer you've ever heard of, large or small. BitBoy had years of experience at EA before making World of Goo. Ed McMillen had been making games for a decade before Super Meat Boy. Do you have any real examples?