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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:13PM (Unverified) said

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Oh now he wants a job with Sony lol and an APOLOGY

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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:41PM sparkster said

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Read again. He wanted that before the case. Obviously both parties agreed to settle this out of court for a reason. Most likely him being a kid without any income and Sony having no case whatsoever.

But yeah, good luck boycotting Sony. Their stuff is EVERYWHERE. Just to name one example: If you own a PC chances are the button cells on your mainboard are made by Sony. So saying "I won't buy any Sony product again" is quite pointless.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:15PM nandokun said

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I don't really care what happens to Hotz, but I definitely agree that Sony has no case. What they do have is money and could have easily litigated his ass into bankruptcy, but they would be doing it at their own expense and with nothing to gain.

Honestly, I'm surprised that so many people are OK with Sony removing a major feature simply for the precedent that it establishes. I personally think it's bullshit.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:36PM Jack Kevorkian said

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@nandokun most of the people here arent very intellectual. corporate shills if you will.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 4:10PM PlatinumSkeet said

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@(Unverified)

This is a loss for consumers IMO. Yes hotz did create that hack to mod PS3's but, it's up to Sony to prevent it by adding extra security measures. This problem would be solved if Sony did what MS has done with the Xbox360. If it's found modded ban the console from going online and make better security updates to find those consoles.

Even the new Beta MS is doing is possibly due to help them with copyright protection by changing the format of the discs on Xbox360. Yeah Sony needs to defend their product but, it's by being a responsible corporate conglomerate. That's by upholding your half as a console maker and creating enough security/policies that defers many from doing it because they see little to no gain in doing it.

Sony makes great products but, any "real" gamer should hate their legal team at the end of the day. Especially their history of destroying import shops, modders, what's next? These aspects of consumer choice have been around since the dawn of gaming. Giving more control to the corporate giant will just help them nickel and dime us in the end. All the people sticking up for Sony has to remember needs to ask themselves a question.

When has another console came out that has lost core features overtime?
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:14PM SisypheanLife said

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lol, joining the Sony boycott. Because internet boycotts work almost as well as internet petitions.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:16PM wcarnation said

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@SisypheanLife It speaks about who he is - overprivileged white kid that treats videogames as vital and serious to life as continued breathing. He bases his entire value off consumer goods and thinks he alone has any sort of importance or meaning in it, and that joining a "boycott" will be anything more than pissing in the wind.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:48PM mywhitenoise said

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@SisypheanLife
Well it's not really hard to boycott Sony in the first place. The only solid hardware they make, is their videogame consoles.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:54PM SisypheanLife said

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@mywhitenoise

That's also a good point. I don't think I've owned a non-video game Sony product since a Discman back in the day, and it was severely overpriced for what it did.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:54PM mmmfishtacos said

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@mywhitenoise I've never once had a problem with Sony products, their tvs are top notch.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:21PM ShadowSoldier89 said

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@mmmfishtacos I dont think I own anything sony other than TV and PS3, and when it comes to high end LCD sets, Sony and Samsung are the only choice
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:30PM Rocketboy said

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@mmmfishtacos Yep, besides the PS2 that had to be repaired twice due to cheap components in the drive, or my Dash that whenever there's an update, something breaks.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:21PM mmmfishtacos said

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@Rocketboy Sorry to hear about your ps2 problems, but when you sell 140 million of something you're bound to have a few rotten eggs. I've owned 6-8 ps2 over the years and not one has giving me any problems..
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:39PM Urethra Alfredo said

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@wcarnation

Can I get that inscribed on a scroll or something?...


...you know, for future reference?




Perfect.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:44PM Rocketboy said

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@mmmfishtacos Mine, and the class action lawsuit that caused them to extend the warranty like MS had to do for the 360?

I'm not trying to bag on Sony, but they are not as trouble free as you indicated.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:01PM vtmneric said

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@wcarnation exactly.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:02PM jph89 said

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@mmmfishtacos

Sony does have great TV's, but Im a samsung guy for them. I have a great pair of Sony headphones that are great though. Adn the PS3 is still amazing.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 4:14PM kentuckyfried said

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@SisypheanLife

It's like getting people to collectively boycott $15 COD map packs...ain't gonna happen.
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Posted: Apr 25th 2011 9:24PM mcnichoj said

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@wcarnation
Why do you have to bring up the fact he's white?
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:14PM sammo21 said

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So basically this means that they probably found something and then they offered him a deal and he agreed.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:22PM maveric101 said

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@sammo21

or they realized they didn't have much of a case.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:33PM rowd149 said

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@sammo21 More like they had nothing. I have to imagine that their position was, "He hasn't actually done anything prosecutable, but we can get him to stop by threatening to litigate him into oblivion." The hate for Hotz is overblown; he didn't do anything illegal, everyone's just oh-so-miffed about their precious multiplayer. I would sympathize, if Sony wasn't essentially attacking our ability to do what we want with devices we've purchased (cheating on their networks is another matter). If this case had gone through, it would have set precedent that would allow corporations to control your possessions, even when they're wholly owned by you. I think that's way scarier than a wallhack in a game you'll stop playing in 3 months anyway.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:37PM sammo21 said

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@rowd149 meh, each side will claim victory: those who think Hotz was right and they are "fighting the man" will claim victory as will those who thinks Hotz is a slimey douche will claim victory. Legally we will never know.

Personally in this timeline I would say it was too soon for Sony to just back away. The only way to explain it would be PR not the "no findings" as this is way way early to make that claim. The only thing I can see there is they found stuff that basically pointed to something and Sony said "we can go deeper and definitely find something or we can come to an agreement".

Either way there is no way to know for sure. Also, Sony isn't saying the same thing that any other console/handheld manufacturer states. The stuff Hotz had up DID allow you to get online and would make cheating online very easy. Sure you can say you won't do it, but after PC gaming for as long as I have the easier the cheat or hack the more will do it and feign innocence. Just like the amount of people who want the PS3 open so they can "back up their PS3 games"...which probably only 0.5% of the PS3 ownerships cares to do.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:44PM copa said

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@sammo21

Sony was under enormous pressure to settle because they saw how this movie ended last year.

George Hotz hacked the iPhone firmware, published instructions on how to jailbreak iOS, and a legal battle ensued.

The end result was that the Library of Congress rules that hacking your mobile phone was legal behavior, and could not be prosecuted under the DMCA.

There is no doubt that Sony could have financially ruined Hotz with continued legislation. But in the end it is VERY likely that in the end firmware hacking on a console would have been ruled legal, just like firmware hacking on a mobile device.

That sort of ruling would be much, much more damaging to Sony than failing to recover all of George Hotz's financial assets ($10,000 and an autographed copy of "Rapping for Dummies"). They wanted to end this case as quickly as possible.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:48PM sammo21 said

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@copa BUT that ruling also stated that if you jailbreak your iphone you should and do not have the right to use Apple's itunes store apps. The same goes for this. If you break your PS3 you can still get onto the PSN and operate per normal but you can easily cheat on any of the games you play. The same ruling would hold up, but unfortunately once you break the PS3 you can't easily identify who is and who isnt authentic.

Sure this battle is to "do what you want with 'your' product" but the people who fight these battles are more interested in downloading illegal copies of games and hacking online.

If people were really this enthralled with the debate, they would be fighting the EULA and not this stuff.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:53PM spin cycle said

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@copa You really need to look into the "information" you quote here.

Under the DMCA the Library of Congress can declare exceptions to the DMCA.

This is not a court ruling. It is not a result of a trial. And it doesn't absolve anyone who does it before the Library of Congress makes their statements.

Also note that these exceptions are specific and create no legal precedent. A court cannot say "because this was legal, this is too", that's not how the law was written.

I think when looking at this settlement, you have to look at both sides. Hotz claimed he didn't know SCEA was located in California. He also claimed he never made a PlayStation network account. These were most likely lies, and it's possible Sony found hard evidence that would make it difficult for Hotz to defend these lies.

I do agree that the Library of Congress declaring that jailbreaking your own console is legal would be more damaging to Sony (and MS and Nintendo). But because the Library of Congress doesn't make these rulings based upon cases, settling this lawsuit will not preempt that possibility in any way.

Where did you get the idea that Apple sued the iPhone jailbreakers? There was no such case. They did make a lot of statements about it, but there were no legal proceedings that I know of.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:55PM jpmacor said

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@maveric101 that's pretty dumb assessment of this. considering what geohotz was claiming he wanted, and what the settlement actually is, i think this is exactly what sony wanted. they never said we want hotz to pay millions and to live his life in poverty, whereas hotz's stance was always that he believed he was in the right, a cocky and arrogant attitude the whole way.

in the end he backed down, sony got a minimally visible (compared to say having the case go to court and have the potential of "ruining one poor souls life just to make money") case settlement, they got a legal promise out of hotz to never do what he did again, allowing them to do whatever they want legally if he or anyone else tries that jailbreak technique again, and again, hotz backed down.

i won't argue about the rights as consumers we should have with the products we buy, that's a far more complicated issue than people like hotz would like it to be (or big businesses who want to microcharge you for everything), but in terms of this case, i'm pretty sure sony won.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:57PM Architecture said

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@copa

The difference here is that Sony's device doesn't lock you into one or two carriers with no options to transfer service. This case has never been about the hardware, but about what unlocking the hardware means for Sony's online service. The PlayStation Network grants users the ability to buy games, try demos, play online and use a number of media streaming solutions. Mr. Hotz was compromising the integrity of that service.

My guess is that this settlement occurred after Sony's legal team met with Mr. Hotz's attorneys and said, "we will bury your client, unless X terms are met." Settling out of court prevents a protracted legal battle and thousands in attorneys' fees. In essence, everyone won this one.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:03PM copa said

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@spin cycle

I never claimed that DMCA exemptions were a court ruling. You are reading something I never wrote.

The Library of Congress considers a limited number of DMCA exemptions annually. There is nothing stopping them from considering an exemption for console firmware, but they are much more likely to do it if it is a subject of ongoing, highly publicized legal proceedings. That is what Sony hopes to avoid.

"A court cannot say 'because this was legal, this is too', that's not how the law was written."

You are confused. The court does not issue exemptions, the Library of Congress does.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:24PM Kougeru said

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@rowd149 people like you are ignorant and always assume it's about the wrong thing. this is about stolen code. sony owns that code, you own the system but when you take their code its theft
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:42PM NIck PSN ID Rattlehead91 said

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@Architecture By modifying a console you can weaken the integrity of an online service? That sounds like it's an issue on Sony's end.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:36PM spin cycle said

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@copa You're the one who wrote:

'The end result was that the Library of Congress rules that hacking your mobile phone was legal behavior, and could not be prosecuted under the DMCA.'

You said Library of Congress ruling, not me. So no, I didn't make anything up here.

Take a look at the exemptions from this year:
http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

None are due to high profile court cases. So no, Sony dropping the case doesn't preclude a LoC exemption being created.

I also think it is overstating the case to call the Hotz case highly publicized.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:40PM sammo21 said

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@spin cycle Agreed; it's highly publicized among gaming blogs and that's it.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:58PM maveric101 said

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@Architecture

"The difference here is that Sony's device doesn't lock you into one or two carriers with no options to transfer service. "

no, with a PS3, you're locked into a single service (PSN). it's the same as a cell carrier lock. both provide services that allow you use access/stream/use a number of other services.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:01PM copa said

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@spin cycle

Yes, the sentence you quoted is correct. The Library of Congress rules whether hacking your phone or your console is a DMCA violation.

The court rules whether Sony gets all of Geohot's moneyz / Vanilla Ice albums.

Two different entities, two different kinds of rulings.

My point is that Sony could have won the court ruling, either by money or merit, but it would be disastrous for Sony if that spurred the Library of Congress to deem console hacking to be legal.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:06PM Architecture said

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@NIck PSN ID Rattlehead91

This is an incredibly naive sentiment. Furthermore, you're clouding the issue at hand.

When you create a PSN ID, you accept the TOS from SNEA, which legally binds you to complying with Sony's wishes. The sort of havoc players with unlocked PS3s was wreaking included, but was not limited to, severe disruption of high-profile multiplayer games. Of course Sony will have to deal with it, but one attention-whoring hacker brought it upon everyone.

I still don't understand the "other OS" feature removal as the sticking point it's become. If you wanted to run your PS3 as Linux box, you could. When the update was pushed that removed the feature, IT WARNED CONSUMERS IN BIG BOLD LETTERS. Sony gave the user a choice: play online via PSN and update your system, or stay off our network and keep your device a Linux box.

Entitled consumers who wanted to have their cake (and eat it, too!) should've purchased a second system.

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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:13PM Architecture said

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@maveric101

They are not analogous. To purchase an iPhone, one must sign a two-year service contract. PlayStation Network, on the other hand, is a free, voluntary service. A consumer could own a PS3 for the entirety of his lifetime and not once access PSN.

Being locked into AT&T for two years is not, has never been, and will never be equal to using PSN to play games online.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:13PM sammo21 said

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@Architecture Most people do ignore the fact they agree to the terms and service and then do what they want. As I said before, we need to try and get an update EULA not try and fight something EVERYONE agrees to when they get an update or download a new feature.Gamers like to think they have the right to protest but not actually do any protesting. "I am going to protest the high system requirements for Crysis 2 by illegally downloading it and playing it". If you were really sick of stuff like that you'd leave it alone and not touch it at all.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 3:54PM Arcaria said

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@maveric101

You're not locked into it. The device works perfectly fine without being on PSN at all. PSN however locks you in with which devices work on the network and part of the rules for using the network is that none of the hardware can be modified.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 5:50PM OnToGloryReturns said

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@Kougeru

He never 'stole' anything. He modified the operating system of a system he legally owned - that is not stealing. Not necessarily sticking up for him but saying that he stole from Sony isn't factual at all.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:14PM DasMadHatter said

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Wow, this guy literally got a slap on the wrist. 4chan must be in an uproar right now.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:43PM pfranzen said

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@DasMadHatter Not literally.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:39PM darkinchworm said

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@DasMadHatter
This guy literally isn't sure how to use the word literally
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:45PM Anticrawl said

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@darkinchworm

Like literally?
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 1:49PM darkinchworm said

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Like for serious.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 2:01PM Ranus Studios said

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@pfranzen

You don't know. That might be one of the undisclosed aspects of the settlement.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 5:53PM OnToGloryReturns said

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@Ranus Studios

How about we just go with "figuratively"
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 10:26PM Rocketboy said

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@OnToGloryReturns Literally go with figuratively, or figuratively go with literally? Now I'm all confused.
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:14PM Phantom Shinobi said

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LOL.... wow.... I wonder what else happened behind closed doors?...
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Posted: Apr 11th 2011 12:16PM Dirtybombs said

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@Phantom Shinobi sex.........
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