Wii U graphics chip outed as last-gen Radeon (which is still pretty good, apparently)

@baby sea tuna By the time Joystiq gets the news everyone and their mother has already heard about it.

@Faceless Troll

Word. I kept checking back to talk about it here but NOOOOOO lol. I' keep seeing new story after new story on Kotaku (I know, =S) and IGN. Here? Nada. Anywho. YES!

Nintendo +
Better Graphics than PS360
????
Profit?

@baby sea tuna
This is actually the reason WHY Nintendo's stock went down.
A great part of Nintendo's consumer market buys the Wii for its affordable price and family friendliness. By incorporating such a powerful graphics processor into their console, they have raised the price of their product, thus alienating a great part of their market.

In other words, the Wii U will not be as successful as the Wii if it does not maintain the trend of affordable pricing. This is why the PS3 and 360, while being graphically superior to the Wii, have not been as successful.

So no, shareholders are still going to sell Nintendo's stock, and the stock value will continue to fall. Unless they make another announcement relating to the Wii U's price, and it actually turns out to be as affordable as the Wii, now is not the time to buy Nintendo stock.

@SunnyXnsanity A last gen Radeon isn't as expensive as you might think.

@SunnyXnsanity
It's not 'such a powerful' graphics processor. As of right now it's a last-gen graphics processor. (That's last-graphics-card-gen, obviously it is still faster than 'current-gen' consoles.) So okay, that makes it still fairly impressive. But as of when the system comes out next year? It'll be a relatively low-end graphics processor and the price should match.

In other words this is still consistent with the Wii approach, just not taken quite so far; it's two-year-old technology instead of four-year-old technology. There's a possibility they can still sell it at a reasonable price (given the bulk volumes and so on); personally I think the 'Wii Pad' is more of a cost concern than the CPU/GPU.

This assuming the rumours IGN have are actually correct. (I don't have any indication they aren't, just saying.)

By the way IGN also did a crappy comparison by setting up a PC with equivalent graphics card and comparing PC games running in 1080p with this card (because it's fast enough for that, just about) with 360 games running presumably somewhere less than 720p.

As far as I'm concerned they basically managed to prove that games look better in lower resolution; I thought the less sharp shots were nicer in each case, so I'm hopeful that developers will take the 'let's make the game run at 720p or less and upscale, while using the spare power to make the lighting and draw distance and frame rate really nice' approach on Wii U same as on the other consoles. (And yes, I do have a 1080p screen.)

Regardless of my preferences and whether games end up being higher-resolution or same resolution but prettier, it seems pretty clear that if the rumour is true, there might be a little extra power but basically games will look pretty much the same as on PS3 and 360. Apart from anything else they're mostly likely to be ported.

@SunnyXnsanity

Economics major here, everyone ask about Wall Street!

@xxxsam
This reply also pertains to Faceless Troll's post.

If the graphics chip is stronger than the 360's and PS3's, it will still be more expensive, since the 360's and PS3's price will drop accordingly. Unless they come up with some crazy new method of mass producing them or something.

However, I agree on your next statement. It is true only if Sony and Microsoft come out with Next Gen consoles to respond to the Wii U. I assume that they will, but as of now, the Wii U has the most powerful graphics card of the three consoles.

I'm not mentioning anything about the potential graphics of the games, since things of that matter can be quite unpredictable sometimes. Like how the 360's Xenon was supposed to be stronger than the RSX. They didn't predict just how great the effect of the cell processor would be. But the Wii U will have something from IBM that supposedly uses the same technology as their Watson. Not much else about the processor is known at the moment.

Also, the developers have a huge influence on how a game looks (they are actually the deciding factor). This is shown by how the same game on different systems often look similar in graphics (PC is an exception).

We'll just have to see how everything turns out in the end.

@Theneverendingsoda "No competitive hard core gamer will choose to play an online, FPS with the Wiipad." You say? Well I say no REAL harcore competitive gamer will choose to play an online fps with anything ohter than a mouse. wiipad is more viable than standard ps3/360 controllers due to the amount of stuff you can remove from the screen.

@SunnyXnsanity

No, this is not why Nintendo's stock went down.

There stock went down because the Wii has barely been moving units and their software sales are way down. But that is just the cycle as they concentrate on the next hardware and software.

And sales of the 3DS are not what anyone hoped. But most of that probably has to do with the main consumer of these devices are children but the purchasers are parents. After buying their children the THIRD version of the DS, they are putting their foot down on buying the fourth (or new handheld) since times are tough.

Bur really, it ultimately boils down to two things: too many product changes with not enough time between them AND the people that make the money decisions for the family have pulled back on spending on those expensive electronic products from Nintendo that are being updated way to frequently (points back to the first of the two things).

@SunnyXnsanity Uh, no. It won't. The 360 and PS3's graphics chips are going on 5 years old. Hardware depreciates considerably with age, and I can go out and buy a graphics card with 1gb of DDR 5 memory for under $100 if I shopped around. Mass production of standard parts is trivial.

@SunnyXnsanity

It's actually not that powerful. The problem is that Nintendo has already said that the Wii U isn't going to be as cheap as the Wii, especially because the controller alone is going to be quite expensive. I just don't see families buying a $349-399 console to play what are at this point, tech demos.

And Nintendo has already firmly alienated any hardcore gamers with the Wii, so having games like Call of Duty and Ninja Gaiden 3 aren't going to bring them back. "1080p graphics" is great, but when we're able to compare what the Wii U can do and the next Xbox/PS3, people are going to continue to rightfully say that the Wii U is behind yet again.

@Mal F4cti0n
You explained the reason why Nintendo's stock is going down in general, but not the reason it suddenly dropped 5%. It is impossible to suddenly drop to such a degree without some sort of major event. It is not a gradual thing, as you have explained.

The thing is, the 5% drop occurred right after Nintendo announced its Wii U. The 3DS and the Wii have already been out in the markets. The gradual loss in sales for the already existing devices will not make the stock drop so suddenly in the time period that they announced the Wii U. I'm not definitively stating that it's causative here, but there definitely seems to be a strong correlation between the announcement of the Wii U and the 5% drop in Nintendo's stock.

Also, please stop up-voting posts that you all find pleasing, and down-voting posts that you don't. I'm sorry that I don't respond quick enough to reply with my information before I get down-voted. Besides, it's not like I'm vying for Nintendo's fall or anything (because that won't happen anytime soon). I'm just stating what I see.

The PS3 does not employ an OpenGL API (primarily). From wikipedia:

"It is a myth that variants of OpenGL are used on Nintendo and Sony platforms, as they have developed their own libraries. The PlayStation 3 game console has an OpenGL implementation, but it remains unused by most developers due to performance issues. "

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D

@Faris Hilton
How so?

@Faris Hilton Not that i'm hating on the big n but in a world were there is a new video card every week this is troubling.

@kvn7918
Pretty simple. DX10 is pretty...meh. So all Sony and Microsoft need to do is release a DX11 capable chip and considering how much better DX11 COULD be if devs use it properly, that really could make a difference on a console.

It wouldn't be like a PC game going from DX10 to DX11, either. It would be a bigger difference. There's a lot of neat tricks DX11 could provide consoles.

So, it's just pretty stupid and sets up a potential Dreamcast moment. Of course, that's assuming Microsoft or Sony go for the jugular and release a system capable of pushing out great DX11 graphics.

Otherwise it might be another PS2/Gamecube/Xbox situation and then Nintendo might win if they can keep that 3rd party support strong and have killer next gen games from them before Sony and Microsoft come to the party.

Either way, this is one of the most dangerous moves Nintendo has made in a long time. It's very high risk and it's basically a game of chicken but Sony and Microsoft really have the higher ground since they know what Nintendo is doing now.

@Mmmmz

I never liked DX10 all that much, but that's probably has to do with Microsoft's handling of it during and after launch more so than the actual language and tech itself.

DX11 on the other hand has already been proven to do some wild stuff, and thinking that current PC hardware could end up in the "next gen" consoles excites me. I'm not sure if my body is ready.

@Mmmmz

Not being able to use Direct X11 necessarily means nothing. Nintendo uses Open GL, so that can really only be considered from a benchmark standpoint

@xiLeShadow

Also to note; PC last-gen is not the same as console last-gen.

The current AMD series for graphics is the Radeon HD 6xxx series graphic cards.
The 4xxx series is last-gen in accordance to chip architecture. Some can argue that it is two gens old because the 5xxx series card.

In comparison to consoles, the Xbox 360 runs on a graphics chip similar to a high-end Radeon HD 1xxxx series. HD 1800x to be precise.

So it can be argued that the Wii U chip is actually two-three gens ahead of the 360 GPU; if talked in PC terms.

This is enough to be consider next-gen by console standards IMO. It is a huge gap and anyone who says its not, is in lala land.

@xiLeShadow

It's not.

lalalalalalaalallaalalalalala

@xiLeShadow
By the time this thing actually hits the market it'll be extremely outdated by PC standards, and frankly being that it's an old GPU it's far from being "next gen" it's basically "what if MS waited five years to put out the 360?" yeah it might be a little advanced, but it's five years late and the year it arrives we'll all be looking at screen shots of REAL next gen systems both PC and console, that make it look dated.

@xiLeShadow

I think most people would consider "next-gen" to be DX11-like graphics and GPUs since DX10 launched with Vista in, what, 2007? People are probably expecting Sony and Microsoft to use chips from 2010-2011 for their next-gen systems, which should fully support DX11 or similar.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but that would seem to be the logical reason for someone calling this "last gen" despite it still being a few years ahead of the current gen consoles.

@xiLeShadow
An F-ZERO on the caliber of AX/GX.... in HD... MY FACE IS ALREADY MELTING....

@PN04

Oh yes, I perfectly understand that the Wii U will be pretty outdated in terms of PC hardware.

I really could careless less about it on a Nintendo console though.

Nintendo always has a good library of good core adventure and platformers games that you can't get anywhere else. Microsoft and Sony ditched their adventure games and platformers and replace them with a heavy shooter library.

Although I do love the shooter genre, among other genres, I love it most on PC, where the experience is more deeper and most importantly, cheaper =D.

So while Sony and Microsoft keep turning their consoles into multi-media machines like PCs, Nintendo is keeping it centric to games and I like that.

It is going to be PC + Wii U next gen for me. Microsoft and Sony haven't showed me a unique experience, so I'm not considering them until they do.

@xiLeShadow

"Although I do love the shooter genre, among other genres, I love it most on PC, where the experience is more deeper "

Would you go as far as to say it's... deeper and wider?

@sonicspike41

It is deeper and wider, in video game terms. =p

I use my PC for Gaming...WAY MORE then my Xbox 360 or PS3. I play with it on a daily basis ;)
while my PS3 and 360 get less of my action, so it will be tighter and not as deep. Poor things never get any pleasure.

@xiLeShadow - RV770 doesn't mean a "high end" part necessarily. The link in the article was for a dual GPU card, with far more power than any single GPU chip that ever came out of RV770. I just upgraded from an HD4870, and while it did do 1080p in some games, it couldn't keep up at that resolution in a lot of newer ones, and it obviously couldn't do DX11.

If game studios get their stuff together in time, this could mean slightly better looking games on the Wii U than on the PS3 or 360. The crossplatform titles should have better framerates on the Wii U as well. That advantage will quickly go away though, as the new generation of consoles come out in the next 2-3 years.

@xiLeShadow : Thank you for adding some actual knowledge into this conversation.

@xiLeShadow

Games centric? I guess I'm just imagining that I can use Netflix and a web browser on my Wii and my 3DS can be an MP3 player. Silly me.

@MEMgrizzlies7
You say Website, I say Planet.

@MEMgrizzlies7
I think the problem is that Nintendo didn't do much to demonstrate that. I think the Wii U has potential to be amazing, but all they showed off at e3 were footage of games from other platforms and new Wii Sports mechanics. I don't think the possibilities of the console have really been fleshed out yet, and until they are most people aren't really going to be excited.

@MEMgrizzlies7
Your not alone bro. I think Nintendo will hit another homerun with this system.

@MEMgrizzlies7

Actually I'm kinda warming up to the Wii U. I read on IGN that the system might be as much as 50% more powerful than the current gen. This changes my stance on the system. When the Wii U was announced I thought Nintendo had lost their minds. I assumed the console was just on par with current gen tech and the controller was the differentiator. I was afraid that in just a few years Nintendo would be in the same spot they currently are in the console race. The Wii has NEVER moved software (outside of first party stuff) like PS3 and 360 have going on 5 years now. With the next generation of hardware on the horizon, it would be only a matter of time before Nintendo's console was forgotten again.

However, this pretty much changes everything. The next leap isn't going to be some mind blowing tech that we haven't seen before. It's going to be very incremental. If the Wii U is indeed 50% more powerful than the PS3, then there really isn't anywhere else to go. When I want to see the next leap for consoles, PC Gaming is always a head of consoles hardware wise for obvious reasons and honestly we hardly see games that look better than Crysis....and that was 4 years ago.

People seem to think that the reason Sony and MS are spending more time on this generation is because we're in a recession. But the truth is no one really knows where to go from here. It just wouldn't be profitable for either company to release new hardware currently. Especially when the leap would not be all that huge. Like I said, it will be better, but marginally so. The next consoles will focus more on 1080p, streaming, and other internet based services. I think it's a very safe bet to assume the Wii U will be your medium setting and PS4/Xbox Next will be the high setting for developers. And...I'm ok with that.

tl;dr Wii U probably not crap.

@MEMgrizzlies7

I'm right there with yea, I think the Wii looks great.

Far too many people place emphasis on graphics, but in reality all I ask for is that the system plays natively on my TV. The Wii U does this and more, but my only hope is for more 3rd party support.

I'm excited to see what Nintendo does with their online component and if it can at least match or surpass PSN (with their recent outages, this shouldn't be hard).

Power to Nintendo!

@MEMgrizzlies7

I love the Wii U so far. Mostly because I know it's Nintendo and they shatter most doubts I ever have.

@Comet 20

We will see, I am no market analyst but using my own deduction, i will stand firm in saying Nintendo did well being that it was the cheapest priced system on the market for quite some time. This is a completely different monster. I think they will need game titles to move this unit, impressive ones at that.

@MEMgrizzlies7

No sir, I am HYPE as well! Not gonna lie, was weirded out a little at first but since more deets have come out I;m good. Zelda HD looks amazing! Hearing that we'll also be able to use at least 2 Upads (rumor) is sweet as well. Especially for Madden, MLB and those type games when you play against someone at home. Mario HD FTMFW!

All we need now is a slight controller modification (sticks, not nubs, and analog triggers!) confirmation of ch33vos and 1 gamertag across all games and I smell a winner winner chicken dinner!

@xFenixKnightx
The buttons are a huge issue. They want people to port over their third party games, but the analog nubs don't hold up to real sticks, and there are a bunch of games (racing games mostly) that use pressure sensetive triggers that just won't be all that playable on the Wii U.

Hopefully most games will let you just play with the classic controller. That way at least we can play with real analogs.

@MEMgrizzlies7

Nop, I love the Wii U and it's Wii Pad. I think a lot of gamers are stuck with the regular controller style and they get scared to try something new. I can see a D&D coming out for this console. The user with the wii pad will be the dungeon master and the other 4 wiimote user will be the heroes. This will be totally awesome.

@NaeemTHM

Well said. Also, as I listen to John Carmack speak about the greater importance of framerate and other aspects of the gaming experience outside of just more pixels or polygons, the next generation will definitely be a lesser leap than it has been before.

The Wii U will most definitely last longer than just a year or two before the competitor's next consoles. I can't imagine their priorities being there at this point when the current gen is maybe just barely maxed out.

@MEMgrizzlies7

I made a couple of comments in the announcement thread that I'm excited by the potential of the system, but I still have many nagging doubts about the execution. I think there is a lot of history of the last few years to support the doubts of people whether they are Nintendo fans or not.

I want this system, and the WiiPad, to be good. But I'm not expecting that until I see more out of them.

@MEMgrizzlies7 No, I'm with you. The more I find out about it, the more I like it. However, I've had to dig around the internet to find all the good info. I don't understand Nintendo's angle here. They've got a very promising system and they're not gloating about it or really even showing it off. Why didn't they just release a spec sheet? Why didn't they have playable Darksiders? Why are third parties the ones divulging information? They make a system the core would want to buy and present it in an off-putting way. WHY!?

@Epoque
Why wouldn't they? They're here to make money. If the Wii U sells anything like the Wii, microsoft would love to gain a small royalty from every unit sold, meanwhile simply putting better hardware in their next gen console.

@Epoque More likely Nintendo doesn't want to pay money to a competitor.