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Reader Comments (47)

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:01PM Faenix said

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3 months of live and 1600 MS points? is it wrong i'd love to be accidentally suspended? O.o

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:43PM electriceye said

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@Faenix

Yeah, a month of playing games offline for three free months and $20 bucks really doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:56PM blackangel209 said

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@Faenix It's kinda like when they released that update a while back that could have potentially bricked your system. But if it DID brick your system, you got a free 250GB system in return. I was praying for a broken system all night.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:46PM kftgr said

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@electriceye

and it was just only 10 days :)
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:02PM trickybuz93 said

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@Faenix Me too. I wish I'd gotten suspended!
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:29PM Faenix said

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@blackangel209

I was super sad when my console didnt break that time. Lol.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:01PM Axcalibur said

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Very interesting - makes you wonder how many bans prior to this were "very, very rare circumstances"....

Now, going forward - we have proof that mistakes of this nature DO happen...

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:32PM swooded said

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@Axcalibur
... We also have proof that they are able to track such mistakes, that they can pinpoint who was affected by the mistakes, that they reverse the the mistakes & that they compensate people for the mistakes... ?
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:43PM Courtney said

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@swooded

No, we have proof that they could track this one incident, and that they acknowledged wrongful bans in this one incident. That does not mean that people have not been wrongfully banned in the past, that they have historically been able to track wrongful bans, or that people will be wrongfully banned in the future and Microsoft will deny it.

I'm actually pretty happy with how they've handled this incident, but I won't give them any more credit than exactly what is due.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:43PM Axcalibur said

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@swooded

So they say - but do we have proof that we should believe them?

Before this, it was very black and white - if you got banned, they claimed to have irrefutable proof that you broke their terms of service. Now, if you got banned, it's "possible" it could be in error... they've remedied it this time - but what if they just didn't notice the mistake before, or they don't notice a mistake in the future.

From the sounds of it, they tried implementing a software solution to drop the banhammer - implying that they're looking for a non-human solution to detect violators... this should concern everyone.

I think the biggest problem with the ban system is the fact that they just offer a generic "you broke the rules" email - and just tell you that "here's a list of rules you might have broken". If they would just tell people what they specifically did as a violation, maybe we can determine if it's another glitch or not - because their current system to me looks just like they're guessing at times. That one of the "error checks" in place might have caught something - so BAM - you must be violating something...

Microsoft frequently flows between poor customer service and grossly neglecting consumer rights - at least in terms of their "ban" policy.

It'll be a good day when Stephen Toulouse is replaced by someone with less of an ego and more of a genuine concern over combating legitimate TOS violations.

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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:47PM Opuelas said

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@Axcalibur
Honestly, if you assumed mistakes like this didn't happen, you'd be highly mistaken. I doubt you could even find an instance of MS saying they were infallible either; that's just silly.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:04PM Stepto said

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@Axcalibur Thanks for the feedback, believe me I spend a lot of time examining how we can keep the human hand in our processes. Myself and my team also spend all our brainpower on combating legitimate TOS violations. Sounds like we're not hitting the mark in your opinion. Love to know your thoughts on improvement, feel free to email me at Stepto@Xbox.com


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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:17PM Mcmax3000 said

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@Axcalibur - They do tell people what got them banned, they just don't tell people how they were caught, which Stepto explains in the article as to why that is not discussed.

"From the sounds of it, they tried implementing a software solution to drop the banhammer - implying that they're looking for a non-human solution to detect violators... this should concern everyone. "

The quote from Stepto says that they were using software to "assist". That tells me that there was still human oversight. Of course they have to rely on software to help them do their job. They can't go break down people's doors to see if their consoles are modded.

I don't see this situation as a reason for concern. Yes, they made a mistake & they will probably make more mistakes & probably have made other mistakes in the past. It's human nature. They've probably also rectified mistakes in the past that we've never heard about.

When it comes down to it, I'm more inclined to believe that 99.999% of their bans are legitimate. The banned parties have a lot more motivation to lie and say they didn't do anything wrong than Microsoft does to enforce a ban on someone who is using (and paying for) their service legitimately.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:02PM Dubiousity said

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Well that is certainly nice of them.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:07PM AmpliHelix said

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Accidentally ban and then unban me please!

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:14PM Mcmax3000 said

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I feel like this is going to cause a very unnecessary ****storm.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:14PM PatientJ said

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Wow, what a great deal! I can't wait to tell my neighbor, who spent hours (over multiple days) on the phone with Microsoft Customer Service and was told repeatedly her 12 year old son must have modded his console! And then, being told there was nothing she could do! This $40 worth of their product is a great way to make up the $300 she spent replacing the console!

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:41PM I took a blops last night said

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@PatientJ holy cow if this is true you should spam their forums or get on the phone with MS... or something. God speed.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:41PM Uncle Jesse said

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@PatientJ

If I thought my kid modded the Xbox I bought for him and couldn't use it anymore, he'd be getting something other than a brand new Xbox. And then to find out that he actually didn't do anything wrong and I beat his ass... AWKWAAAARD.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:47PM pluupy said

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@Uncle Jesse
Yikes.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:51PM R Planteer said

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@PatientJ

Thankfully, stores have return policies, and given that it's been less than a month since the very start of this fiasco, she should have no problem returning the newly bought Xbox. As long as she didnt throw away the old one, there shouldn't be a problem.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:12PM HokieKC said

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@R Planteer - Yea that ' true story' made no sense.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:16PM mdjcc said

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is just for consoles or accounts? because i got banned unfair for "marketplace thief"... and the funny part of all is that i never buy there.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:33PM eat it said

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@mdjcc

obviously you never buy there if you are stealing.

I'm joking, I'm joking, kind of
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:48PM pluupy said

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@mdjcc
Do you ever buy DLC?
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:21PM mdjcc said

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@pluupy
the only one was from halo reach and thats all
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:44PM Ore said

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@mdjcc
Most of the people getting hit by this ban wave were falsely accused of "Marketplace theft" like you, so you probably are included in this.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:10PM barkie said

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Actually, plenty of stores have a policy directly stating no returns on opened xbox consoles. Doesn't even matter if you opened it in the parking lot and tried to return it within 5 mins of purchasing.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 4:55PM eilegz said

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well at least they are rectifying now i hope that im suddenly unbanned...

Posted: Sep 24th 2011 8:10AM Wise Men said

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Keep up the good work. I know it seems like gamers, in general are always upset about something. That we are always waiting, ready to pounce the moment that one mistake is made. But you should know that this is just the loud minority. The rest of us are usually too busy gaming. If a mistake is made, we accept suitable gestures of apology and move on. Regardless, everyone deserves to be heard. So, keep up the good work.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:10PM swooded said

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@Courtney
My point is that if all you are going to take out of this is "AH HA! They DO make mistakes" you're not looking at the full picture. Just like what you're saying - Yeah they did something good this time, but we have no proof that they could do this or were doing this before. Well, yeah, we don't. We also don't have proof that they were NOT unbanning people who had been (honestly) banned by mistake. But we do have the same amount of proof that they 'are' doing it as we have that they 'are' able to make such mistakes...

This story DOES prove they are capable of mistakes in banning - I didn't and don't deny that. I do not think MS is anywhere close to being perfect. That said, this story also DOES prove that they can track these mistakes and that they are capable of rectifying them. And - in this story - they're doing a damn good job of rectifying the mistake. Pretending the one point doesn't matter, while the other is all important is pretty ridiculous. I'm giving them only the credit that is due here.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:12PM swooded said

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@swooded
Damn it..
oh well.
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 5:15PM Squawk said

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Awfully nice of MS. They could have realized this, and done a thing.

Maybe they aren't so evil. 8)

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:17PM killr0y said

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All the naysayers here don't know how to program and therefore do not know what they are talking about.

When designing software to look for specific signs of something, false positives can be a result. This is just how programming works. Sometimes if you are looking for value X the code you are using to find it may hit an unforseen circumstance i.e. looking for a particular value in a string, but because that string doesn't even exist, the query might return an invalid value which triggers the flag you were looking for.

So as you can see from the above example, in a very specific type of circumstance, you can get a false positive. The good thing is once you identify how the false positive was generated, you can reverse it very easily.

This notion of "Bu bu teh banhammer could have been unjustly punishing people this whole time for no reason!" is a bunch of malarky.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:40PM Ore said

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@killr0y
"Bu bu teh banhammer could have been unjustly punishing people this whole time for no reason!"

But this is exactly what happened.

I first heard about this story when a gaming review site had their Live account banned, they had a number of follow up stories detailing their efforts to get the account unbanned and Microsoft were not in any way helpful.

People posting on the official Xbox forums about this problem would get a copy pasted answer or a smart alec response if they were lucky.
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Posted: Sep 24th 2011 12:09AM killr0y said

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@Ore
The accidental ban lasted 10 days becuase once MS received a few corroborating reports, it took them that time to figure out what commonalities between these people & their xboxes caused the banhammer to think they were hackers.

Once they figured it out, they were quickly able to determine everyone who would have been unintentionally banned, and reverse it.

This is not a case of "who is going to protect the innocent from teh unjust banhammer from now on?" It was a case of, "we got some false positives, figured out what was causing it, and now its all fixed."

Remember when Toyotas started crashing because the gas pedals were getting stuck a year ago? They figured out the commonality was that the floor mats were getting stuck on the gas pedal or something simple like that, and they fixed it. Can Toyota screw something else up and have something else go wrong with their cars? Sure, but how likely is that really?
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Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:21PM INTRO said

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Nice of them to do this rather than act like no one innocent got banned forget about it.

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 6:39PM Negatron said

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I wasn't banned bit I would like to be compensated for the pain and suffering my xbox live brethren have endured.

I haven't stopped crying since the news was released. *wink wink*

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 11:02PM hiruuamon said

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DAMN...I wish I had been affected!

Posted: Sep 23rd 2011 11:03PM hiruuamon said

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Why don't I believe you...

Posted: Sep 24th 2011 4:02AM bjb1990 said

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It must have been a VERY small percentage that were affected as I don't think any major gaming sites reported on it.

Posted: Sep 24th 2011 12:31PM wtfudge said

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Check out all the youtube videos on hacking XBox Live and changing gamer profile info - tons of 'em done by kids.

A small number of people get the short end of the stick, and they have it made up to them. Rumors fly around that people are being banned unnecessarily, or there are hackers banning people on Live, and all the banned people freak out and claim they didn't do anything wrong. You know what they say - in jail, everyone is innocent. Parents don't want to believe their angel is capable of any wrong.

It's also ironic because some people went back to PS3 after the large-scale hacking incident for the freebies.

Posted: Sep 24th 2011 8:19PM c4eva said

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Looks like Microsofts Antipiracy2.5 and 2.6 (AP25) will be discontinued come the next dash update. 128 challenges for Black Ops meant the dvd lens had to work overtime to send the responses needed to boot the game.

Posted: Sep 24th 2011 9:13PM undeaddrew said

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i was banned and got unbanned from this but didnt get my time or points does anyone know when?

Posted: Sep 25th 2011 5:56AM treach515 said

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My Son's (our) Xbox was one of the Consoles to receive a permanent ban. This has since been retified and it is 'Live' again. Not heard anything on the free 3 months or points yet but hopefully we will in due course.

What I would say is that in trying to establish why this had happened (my son is 11 years old and has no grasp on modding) I was met with stone wall silence on the reasoning behind the ban. Letter of complaint resulted in a very pleasant but equally unhelpful customer support agent basically telling me no recourse, ban stands, no explaination.....sorry Xbox/Enforcement team rules. Very, very frustrating and an extremely upset 11 year old to boot!

Pleased it's sorted, no stroppy child anymore and wait to hear on the 'freebies'. But will say policy of non communication for banning issues is draconian, poor for customer relations and will only drive customers away if mistakes continue to happen.

Posted: Sep 25th 2011 3:40PM vadarstorm said

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Stepto@

Hi, I was one of those victims that got my console ban two weeks ago. Yes, I did called the Xbox support and I'm a MSFT partner and begged the customer service rep and manager to verify my claims in the MSFT GAL. I explained to the manager that there was no way I should be banned and that I work as a virtual TS for MSFT. I had to go out and buy a new XBOX last week. I'm glad that I can return it and will do that today.
Please put in a system to provide some direction of wrong doing for the victims, because I was quite irate to buy that new system for something that I 100% didn't do and try to explain that over and over. I hope to see better transparency in the future. I'm sure you have fraud that needs to be address, but for the little person we are the victims!
Mashupgod

Posted: Sep 26th 2011 8:26PM razblade77 said

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@vadarstorm ms srew u over big time and what do u do, you go and buy their products again lol. what a loser if ms did that to me i would never buy ms product in my whole life. sorry vadarstorm but u are one sad gammer lol
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