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Reader Comments (43)

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:21PM jackal said

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I'll be ghosted for saying it, but I couldn't help thinking, "Someone's been hitting Warhammer 40k for their species inspiration" after reading that short interview.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:29PM gordeaux said

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@jackal not by me you won't + + +
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:31PM Foetoid said

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@jackal

Well the comparisons are easy to make. 40k has been around since 1987 but has only really included Tyranids (obvious comparisons to Zerg) since about 1993, and SC1 came out in 1998. Its always possible Blizzard got their inspiration for the Zerg from the Tyranids, even the Terran has some extremely easy comparisons to make to the Space Marines, even breaking it down to colour and how the armor is designed. Fun Fact: It doesn't matter lol. Both games are great, i wish i had the money needed to get myself a phat 3000 point Tyranid army and go to local 40k gaming days, but i also thoroughly enjoy playing SC2.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:36PM Zebra said

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@jackal

Please. Everything is a remix. The Space Marine and the alien-as-insect predate even WH40k. They're both from a movie. Perhaps you've heard of it. It's called Aliens.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:42PM Oddgirl said

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@Zebra It was called Starship Soldier / Starship Troppers. It was a book, not a film.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:43PM tanooki equipped said

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@Zebra if you want to go that route, Starship Troopers was the reading material required on the set of Aliens
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:46PM Courtney said

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@jackal

You can go back even further, with the idea of space marines fighting an insect like alien race going back to the 1959 Heinlein novel "Starship Troopers" (not to be confused with the loosely based movie from the 90s). His infantry using powered armor basically shaped the entire concept of the space marine, while the alien as "bug" idea continues to influence movies, games and books.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:52PM Zebra said

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@Oddgirl

Haha, yep! Totally forgot about that.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:05PM Draugdraugr said

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@Courtney

I find it amusing, because warhammer fans are always quick to claim someone is ripping off of warhammer, but they always seem to fail that if they are going to go that route then warhammer gets to be a rip-off, too

as was said earlier, there isn't anything truly original under the sun.
My guess is blizzard would mention them as inspirations if Games Workshop wasn't notoriously lawsuit-crazy. ;)

I always hear rumors about how Warcraft and/or starcraft was actually slated to be a warhammer game, but games workshop backed out, so it's influence has been there in some way. That being said, I've never seen anything that confirms this, so who knows if it is true or not. It certainly seems plausible, and if it is the case I'm glad games workshop backed out.
side note: warhammer would be way cooler if the orks didn't exist in their little made-by-a-12-year-old form. whenever they pop up it always ruins it for me.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:31PM zlliM said

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i saw all the comments referencing Robert A. Heinlein
feelsgoodman.jpg

Heinlein coined/"thought up" cell phones too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A_Heinlein#Inventions_presaged
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 8:50PM Joshua Przygocki said

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@Draugdraugr The orcs and orks are supposed to be the comedic relief for WFB/40k respectively. In the grim future there is a need for a little light-hearted slaughter along side the purging of heretics.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 9:07PM jackal said

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@Foetoid

"even the Terran has some extremely easy comparisons to make to the Space Marines, even breaking it down to colour and how the armor is designed."

That's actually what I was getting at. Setting aside the history behind who inspired who, the actual design elements behind SC's species apes heavily from those of WH40K; Tyranids are organic chaos incarnate, the Eldar make heavy use of the rounded or elliptical shapes, and everything associated with the Space Marines outside of their armor is extremely angular.

I'm sure others are bound to point out that when two people are inspired by the same sources they may invariably come to the same design cues, but it's not a position I agree with. Power armor may fulfill the same function, but they don't have to look the same; Mjornir MK VI armor looks nothing like Iron Man's, whose armor in turn looks nothing like a landmate from Appleseed. Aliens, by their very definition, are alien; it takes little imagination to bring a creature to life that looks wholly unique and other worldly.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 2:59AM (Unverified) said

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@jackal While I agree to the general statement that 40K has influences from other franchises, 40K never takes too much from one source. For example, the Space Marines might be influenced by Starship Troopers while Tyranids are influenced by Aliens and the Tau are influenced by Animes like Gundam and the Imperial Guard take after units in real life military history. 40K Borrows liberally but combines elements in a unique and novel way.

Starcraft wholesale borrows from 40K in all three factions. Not only that, but several units in SC2 have concepts almost entirely lifted from 40K. Look at the Reaper. A unit that is encased in power armour, uses a jump pack and has dual pistols. That's just a Sisters of Battle Seraphim with a sex change. The Protoss Motherships are massive space arks which serve as homes for an entire population of Protoss. Sounds like a Craft World to me. The Protoss Colossus is a massive, bipedal, autonomous war machine. Sounds like a Wraith Lord to me. So on and so forth. IMO, there's a pretty significant difference between taking inspiration from multiple sources and combining them and simply taking everything from one source and changing the artwork and voices.

To draw an analogy, I'll put it this way. Knights who wield both swords and magic are pretty common in our pop culture. So are space fighters that engage in dog-fight style combat. Also common are huge planet destroying super weapons. Using any of those elements alone doesn't make mean that you're ripping anything off. Writing a story about a mystical knight who pilots a star fighter to blow up a massive planet destroying super weapon is a pretty clear rip off of Star Wars...
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 8:17AM IronClawt said

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@jackal

If I had millions of dollars you would most likely get part of it.
Well said!
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:21PM Foetoid said

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FOR THE SWARM!

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 9:31PM Soiden said

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@Foetoid

EN TARO TASSADAR!
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 1:27AM TheKillingJoke said

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@Foetoid

Zugzug!
oops wrong game
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:27PM LungALung said

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Pretty funny guy if you've seen some interviews or videos with him in it. Interesting to note that he created the Pandaren.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:29PM gordeaux said

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By stealing them from Games Workshop?

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:38PM Zebra said

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@gordeaux

Who in turn simply ate what both Ridley Scott and James Cameron spoon fed them.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:40PM gordeaux said

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@Zebra Giger's Alien =/= Tyranids.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:49PM Zebra said

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@gordeaux

Hence why his name appeared nowhere in my reply. You can't see the elementary parallels between the two?
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:10PM gordeaux said

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@Zebra No, i don't really see much similarity between the aliens or the marines in the Alien(s) films and Warhammer 40,000. Sorry.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:24PM Softserve said

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@gordeaux I guess I see a difference between taking inspiration from multiple sources and what's happening here.

So maybe Games Workshop got some influences from Aliens. The comparisons are fairly basic, but fair enough. The fact remains that we essentially have to cherry pick very specific examples of what Games Workshop supposedly stole. So this is influenced by X, this is influenced by Y... yet group Z isn't similar to anything at all.

Let's say GW stole Aliens from Aliens or Starship Troopers... what else? Is anyone really going to argue that the Space Marines are in any way similar beyond their name?

It just doesn't seem as blatant as what has happened with Blizzard. Some of their most popular stuff, time and time again, is similar to releases from ONE company. I think it stopped being "inspired by" coincidences a long time ago.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:30PM (Unverified) said

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Sorry if you do a little digging it is clear that Blizzard ripped off Games Workshop. To say that Blizzard created iconic characters for Starcraft is the highest form of heresy.

Ave Imperator!

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:39PM rTwelve said

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@(Unverified) Humans / Superior Civilization / Infestation is a pretty common triumvirate in scifi at this point.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:47PM Courtney said

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@(Unverified)

Also see the (at this time) triumvirate of comments above referencing Starship Troopers.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:23PM Draugdraugr said

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@(Unverified)

'Sorry if you do a little digging it is clear that Games Workshop ripped off Heinlein. To say that Games Workshop created iconic characters for Warhammer is the highest form of heresy.'

fanboy line that reveals my bias!

Nothing is truly original, so let's not pretend Warhammer is. I'm willing to admit SC isn't original, I wouldn't argue with that. what I am talking about is people's willingness to call something derivative without acknowledging it in things THEY enjoy.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:40PM Spacegrass said

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@(Unverified)

Too be fair, the Terrans are very different in StarCraft than they are in 40k. Space Rednecks and Roman Catholic Space Nazis don't really have a whole lot in common.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 3:04AM darkinchworm said

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@(Unverified)

My reasonable conclusion: As stated above, WH40k riffs plenty of sci-fi material itself - Blizzard may have referenced it for bits and pieces of the Starcraft universe, but very likely took inspiration from a great deal of sources, many of which it likely shares with the creative minds behind WH40k.

My snide remark: Blizzard took Warhammer 40k and injected it with a dose of interesting
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 6:48PM FreakSheet said

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"just a gumbo of teeth and snot and bile,"

BEST. DESCRIPTION. EVER.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:14PM Ryuk said

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Does it matter who ripped off who though? I don't know much about the Warhammer Universe, and all I know of Blizzard is StarCraft, but they both seem great and different by their own merits.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:26PM Atrev said

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@rTwelve

Even the Halo series does it with the Humans, Convenant and the Flood.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 7:51PM rTwelve said

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@Atrev

That's exactly what I usually think of, even stretching to Forerunners and Xel'Naga.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 8:10PM TheKbob said

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Some folks want to make the Starship Troopers reference, and really, Warhammer 40K may have based Tyranids loosely on them, but read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug_(Starship_Troopers)

Some of the pieces are there, but 40K grew more so on the symbiotic nature, however Tyranids do not have a "queen" structure. There are Hive Tyrants, but they do not serve the purpose of anything but War Leader.

Since the 'Nids dex was out in 1995, this predates the movie of Starship Troopers.

The power armor in Aliens has no physical likeness to the exoskeleton in aliens. The imagery in aliens may reflect the Tyranid Warriors, but so many different groups of the bugs vary.

It's no doubt that Blizz copped Warhammer, which has had very unique twists in both Fantasy and Science Fiction realms. The developmental likeness of the Eldar to the Protoss, Terran to Space Marines, and Tyranids to Zerg is absolutely uncanny and the Games Workshop series came first.

At the end of the day, I say GW had it first, Starcraft aped it, however these days GW are pricks and Blizz sold out to Activision. So everyone loses! :D

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 8:35PM Draugdraugr said

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@TheKbob

And once again, here we are. we have a warhammer fan saying that the bugs from Starship troopers are different than the Tyranids for XYZ reason, and therefore isn't derivative. When it comes to starcraft we could use the same reasoning, but they just gloss over it and call it rip-off

How come this same reasoning doesn't apply when comparing warhammer to starcraft? Using this same argument we could say the same thing regarding Warhammer and starcraft, certainly there are enough differences there to make them distinct from the Tyranids, if there are enough differences to make the Tyranids disctinct from the bugs.

Also you spoke of power armor in Aliens, but when people were speaking of power armor they were referring to starship troopers, not Aliens. in Aliens that's a forklift. in starship troopers there was power armor/mechs, etc. to combat the bugs just like... Starcraft and Warhammer!

I'd say the dynamics of the Zerg and the Terrans certainly adhere more towards Heinlein than warhammer., but both appear to be derivative of his work, just as Im sure Heinleins work is derivative of someone elses work, in some way.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 9:03PM Courtney said

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@TheKbob

Wait, you just referenced the movie Starship Troopers. Are you aware that it's actually a classic novel from 1959 by one of the all time greatest sci-fi authors? The movie really has no place in the discussion, as all the relevant influence would come from the original book, which was wildly influential on the development of science fiction.
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Posted: Oct 25th 2011 8:13PM Kresh said

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"just a gumbo of teeth and snot and bile"

That's just awesome!

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 9:54PM SaintV said

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They are iconic because they are stealing from the Warhammer ip.

Posted: Oct 25th 2011 10:18PM OzKerr said

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More Starcraft coverage please!

Posted: Oct 26th 2011 2:14PM totalysharly said

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@OzKerr agreed. I haven't seen nearly enough.
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Posted: Oct 26th 2011 2:12PM totalysharly said

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I'm from Aiur and I say kill 'en all!

Posted: Oct 26th 2011 2:15PM totalysharly said

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So is the Tempest weapon to murder what looked like 30 Mutalisks with this hits an ability or its regular anti-air attack?

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